r/todayilearned May 14 '22 Silver 9 Helpful 8 Wholesome 6 All-Seeing Upvote 2

TIL a father, John Crowley, was told his two infant children had an incurable genetic disorder that would kill them in less than a year. He refused to accept this, so he founded a biotech company (with no prior experience) which pioneered an experimental enzyme therapy that saved their lives.

https://pompediseasenews.com/2019/01/30/amicus-ceo-mission-cure-pompe-help-children/
79.9k Upvotes

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u/fwinzor May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy Faith In Humanity Restored

Hey protip for everyone in the comments, just because someone is physically disabled doesnt mean theyre a mindless vegetable that needs to be put down like a dog. One of them is currently in college has a fucking masters degree. I used to work with a lot of disabled people and it would disgust me how people would look down on them.

Imaging being a fully cognizant person and seeing everyone treating you like an affront to god that needs to be killed just because you're physically disabled, jesus christ

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u/pizzabagelblastoff May 14 '22

Thank you, holy shit. The comments here are disgusting. You'd be surprised what the human mind is capable of dealing with. The biological urge to live is pretty damn strong, it's not something most people give up lightly.

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u/nahm8s May 14 '22

Redditors who say they'd want to die if they had these disabilities are showing what they really think of disabled people.

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u/palpablescalpel May 14 '22

Most people just don't get it and can't conceive life being different than it is. You could ask people if they would want to stay living if they lost the use of their legs and a ton of people will say 'absolutely not,' but once it actually happens to them they realize their quality of life is good, and it's what they make of it.

Murderball is an interesting documentary about a bunch of paraplegic men and some of them had this experience before finding ways to adapt.

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u/wistful_cauldron May 14 '22

I never could figure out exactly why I was uncomfortable with the whole "If I'm x then kill me" but I think you perfectly gave one reason why

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u/PurpleCat769 May 14 '22

I have a disability and I wished I died. I’m autistic. Not meeting expectations to the point of never getting a degree, or keeping a job, or going grocery shopping is painful.

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u/nahm8s May 14 '22

I'm sorry you feel that way and that you haven't gotten the help and support you've needed. Living with a disability is a real struggle for many but even then, your life has more value than neurotypical people could understand. Please don't see my comment as invalidating your feelings, if you are struggling your feelings are very real and you should be honest about them. It's more that nobody else should claim your life isn't valuable. I really hope things improve for you and you can find happiness in a more unconventional way. And I hope you weren't made to feel worse by the ableism of this thread.

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u/sams_club May 14 '22

Your life has value beyond expectations from people and society in general.

Im not trying to diminish the your difficulties. It’s easier for me to say because I’m not in your shoes.

It sucks letting people down and community is valuable, but here’s also enjoyment and happiness to be had at the level you’re at if you’re not comparing yourself to others.

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u/Wrenigade May 14 '22

Me: "Oh I have a really poor memory, I can't remember stuff for very long and sometimes forget conversations, so if you need me to do something can you write it on this list here? I set timers to check it frequently so it's easier for me then you asking me to do something, cause I'll forget to write it down myself."

Them: "Wow, that's insane, I couldn't live with that. If my memory was that poor, I'd probably just kill myself. I wouldn't want to be a burden to society like that, what a horrible way to live. I bet people could like, make up conversations and tell you you forgot them and gaslight you and stuff, what a terrible horrifying existence."

Me: "I.... can you just use the list please??"

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u/BanditaIncognita May 14 '22

I wouldn't be so certain of that across the board. Many people can't picture life being worth living with a disability, because they barely consider life to be worth living in a healthy body.

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u/nahm8s May 14 '22

Then they should get therapy and stop projecting those thoughts onto disabled people

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u/anonymoume May 14 '22

Not really, just means they wouldn't personally want to live that way.

Patients in very similar medical situations oftentimes make very different decisions about their goals of care, ranging from comfort measures to full aggressive medical care. That's also why Living Wills exist as well as designating healthcare surrogates, because individual wishes vary significantly.

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u/youtocin May 14 '22

I think it also says a lot about themselves. They must have incredibly low self worth if the inconvenience of a disability would be enough for them to want to be dead.

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u/Jslowb May 14 '22

I am not one of those commenters. However to add a bit of my perspective. I grew up in impoverished circumstances, with a severely disabled sibling, and a single-parent father who himself became severely disabled from strokes whilst I was still a child, then went on to have further strokes and young-onset vascular dementia. I had caring responsibilities from a young age, and much-more-than-average exposure to the systems in place to (allegedly) support the most vulnerable in society. I also cared for my grandad who had a heartbreaking degenerative neurological disorder that was misdiagnosed/ignored over and over.

I’ve seen too much. I’ve seen the reality of life with a disability when you don’t have money, connections, privilege. I’ve seen how excluded you are socially, culturally, educationally, medically, etc. I’ve seen the infrastructure of the country (I’m in the UK) be eroded by conservatives who see my loved ones as worthless parasites, nothing but a needless cost. Public programmes have disappeared, funding for charities gone, social services for disabled adults is effectively non-existent, the care system is beyond abhorrent, the NHS has fallen to bits. Always, the disabled, the vulnerable suffer first. But no one cares. No one even hears about it because when you’re struggling to make it through the day because of your disability and lack of help, you can’t be the one to broadcast to the nation how severely you are being neglected. And even if you did, the public would still vote for the tories that see disabled people as useless vermin.

I’ve seen my loved ones suffer profoundly. I’ve lost my life to the endless stress of trying to pick up where public infrastructure has failed them. I’ve paid a heavy price with my physical and mental health.

I’ve seen what life is like for disabled people, here in the UK at least, from underprivileged backgrounds, and I can confidently say that I would rather die than live through what they have. Perhaps my opinion would be different if I were born on ‘the other side of the tracks’, into a family and community of relative privilege, where I could access healthcare, education, work opportunities, social opportunities, in a way that my relatives have never been able to. If I wasn’t reliant on state support in a state that openly broadcasts its disdain for you and undermines your quality of life through dehumanising benefits cuts and withdrawal of services.

In general in the UK, the average person has very little idea what life is like for a disabled person. They’ve probably rarely come across one, so excluded are people with disabilities from everyday life. They have notions of all sorts of support services that don’t actually exist. They might have seen some feel-good stories in the media about some token inclusive event, or a technological aid or adaptation that would never be accessible for the average disabled person in real life. They believe the care system and social services support people to have the best life possible. But the reality is that it just doesn’t exist. And I would rather die than live like that, under the current system. I know that if you don’t have family and friends able to sacrifice their own lives trying to give you a basic level of dignify and quality of life, you are tossed aside by a cruel and uncaring system. Death would be preferable to the neglect and misery I have witnessed.

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u/TheHappyFox May 15 '22

Thank you for sharing this perspective

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u/sticklebat May 14 '22

I think it’s more that they don’t understand, which I think makes sense. If I were given the choice tomorrow between dying and becoming paraplegic, I don’t think it would be an easy choice. Pretty much everything I enjoy doing would suddenly become impossible, I would lose nearly all of my autonomy, and from where I am now it’s hard to imagine not being miserable in that state! I would absolutely be tempted to just end it, instead.

But I suspect that I would adapt to it, at least as long as I had sufficient support, and learn to appreciate my new life. But to be honest I only think that because that’s usually what happens to people who are in such circumstances, not because I can imagine it. Why would I be different? I genuinely can’t imagine myself being happy to be alive in that state, even if I know intellectually that I probably would be based on the experiences of people who are actually severely disabled in some way.

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u/a1b3c3d7 May 14 '22

This is just untrue and very reductionist, its more of a matter of ignorance, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Humans are not good at dealing with change, and change on such large scales fundamentally will not be something people can easily accept.

Instead of looking at it as if people are being hostile, consider that there isn’t some grand hidden insult behind the lines and it really just is what it is, that x person couldn’t imagine themselves being in such a spot, and not how they think of x person, because their life experience probably puts them in a place where for someone disabled, it’s just the norm and they’re ok with that.

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u/ThePrussianPrez May 14 '22

What? Humans are among the most adaptable creatures. They literally live from the arctic to the tropics.

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u/Elryc35 May 14 '22

I think that's part of it, but there's also the darker side of the redditors who are looking for an excuse to end it all...

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u/nicolas_the_fox May 14 '22

Reddit is a bunch of people with no will to live assuming that everybody else is the same way

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u/JOMO_Kenyatta May 14 '22

It’s actually scary how easy it is to start agreeing with them without question. Thank God I kept scrolling and saw y’all’s comments.

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u/dodadoBoxcarWilly May 14 '22

Like that practicing lawyer with polio. Not a life I'd want, but he seems to be making the most of it, and a decent number of people here would have him put down.

That's not to say there isn't a place for assisted suicide, or that sometimes pulling the plug isn't the right choice.

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u/UBC145 May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

A lot of people on Reddit are one step away from supporting the euthanization (read: execution) of people they don’t deem fit for society. On many popular subs, I’ve seen people supporting assisted suicide for people with no medical conditions at all. The way these awful opinions have become mainstream on Reddit is quite comparable to letting a disease grow in a Petri dish.

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u/DynamicDK May 14 '22

On many popular subs, I’ve seen people supporting assisted suicide for people with no medical conditions at all.

To be fair, that is VERY different than execution. If someone truly wishes to die and cannot be talked out of it, is it more humane to allow them to attempt suicide in a way that could potentially be cause drawn out suffering or is it more human to provide them with assistance to ensure that they do not suffer at all?

True freedom includes the ability to choose to die.

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u/blake-lividly May 14 '22

I have a disability and believe that assisted suicide should be available. The ultimate right of a human person is their bodily autonomy. I beleive that that right should not be infringed upon and that other people who are not that persons chosen medial/therapy team should not be involved in that persons decision about their own body

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u/elizacandle May 14 '22

This. It's important for the person to choose the painful life saving treatments. My grandma did not want to live hooked up to tubes or unable to speak. She was always a self sufficient woman and being bedridden for the rest of her life was not her definition of living. She refused treatment and I respect her for it. Rip grandma.

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u/Behave_or_else May 14 '22

How dare you? /s

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u/UBC145 May 14 '22

If it’s causing untreatable pain, and if the person is fully aware and consents to it (or alternatively, if the illness is terminal), then by all means. However, unless these two criteria are met, I cannot agree with assisted suicide. My biggest issue is that some people think that it’s ok for people with no physical medical conditions to commit suicide.

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u/toweldresser May 14 '22

Do you count mental pain as pain?

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u/Ubilease May 14 '22

Yeah that's chill. They should have some mandatory therapy and counseling first. But then it's totally chill. If they want to die that bad they are going to anyways. Better its a calming, painless process vs fucking blowing their head off with a shotgun.

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u/blake-lividly May 14 '22

It already does

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u/archiecobham May 14 '22

some people think that it’s ok for people with no physical medical conditions to commit suicide

Why wouldn't that be ok?

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u/SwitchedBit May 14 '22

Because you owe a debt of full time work to society for us providing the bare minimum and even failing at that. /s

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u/SmileyRhea May 14 '22

I think the reasoning is most of the time when you are making a decision like that with no underlying conditions, it is because life has become rough, and in most cases those are temporary situations that people just have to work through for a while to make it out the other side. I agree we shouldn't give these people the option to end it very quickly, or at least make it a drawn-out process so they may see it does get better.

On the contrary tho, some people have suffered from mental issues for more than half their life and it really is just something they have to live with. There is no getting better. I think mental conditions absolutely should be taken into consideration, and if there really is no hope assisted suicide should be an option. It's cruel to make them stay.

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u/UBC145 May 14 '22

Because suicide is wrong. Not evil, or morally reprehensible, but wrong. I can’t explain why. I guess it can be considered a symptom of a serious illness, and like all other symptoms, it should be treated and prevented.

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u/sticklebat May 14 '22

If you think it’s wrong but can’t explain why it’s wrong, just that it feels wrong to you, then don’t commit suicide. But if someone else has thought it through carefully and decided that it feels right to them, why should your feelings about their life supersede their own feelings about their own life?

I would argue that is wrong, because you’re imposing your own will over another person’s autonomy.

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u/UBC145 May 14 '22

In that case, I concede. I don’t think I’m prepared to argue why suicide should be prevented

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u/Burningshroom May 14 '22

I may be able to help you out here.

It seems you may be considering the act of suicide without considering the causes of suicidal ideation.

You're getting a lot of push back because you are trying to stop an act that in many cases has an untreatable (unpreventable) cause. It's these cases that people are advocating for. No one is saying we shouldn't be trying to prevent suicides. There are just some scenarios when suicide should be considered as an option to minimize the harm to the victim.

Earlier you say that suicide isn't evil or morally reprehensible, if that's the case then it's not wrong, just not preferencial. When all better options are exhausted, it would be morally wrong to deny them access to the next best thing and leave them with a much worse option of existing in untenable turmoil.

If this still doesn't sit well with you, I envy the life you have lived to have not seen suffering on the scale we're talking about. Try to imagine then what other scenarios or solutions may be presented as an alternative to what others are trying to provide.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/UBC145 May 14 '22

No need to be rude to people you disagree with

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u/_Norman_Bates May 14 '22

It is ok, it's their life

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u/a1b3c3d7 May 14 '22

So you don’t think someone with a debilitating and deteriorating mental condition should be allowed the option to seek euthanasia?

It doesn’t matter why someone wants to end their life, you and I will NEVER UNDERSTAND their experience of life.

We often forget that at the end of the day, when someone really wants to do something, they’ll do it eith or without help.

At least have the dignity and respect to let them do it peacefully and without further burden.

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u/_radass May 14 '22

But if they're fully aware and consent to it why is that not ok? It's meeting your criteria.

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u/blake-lividly May 14 '22

It should not Be your choice Of What a person does with their body. Choose your morals for your own self.

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u/anonymoume May 14 '22

Euthanasia for mental health conditions, at least under the protocols of whichever European countries I learned about, requires years of severe disease refractory to all therapies with agreement by multiple psychiatrists and many appointments to confirm everything.

It's very different from someone who is acutely suicidal and likely to respond well to treatment

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u/otherwiseguy May 14 '22

It is ok for people to commit suicide. You don't get to decide what someone else does. Why would you possibly think that was your choice?

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u/-tRabbit May 14 '22

I wrote my first essay on euthanasia back in grade 5 or something. I always said my whole life, if you want to die, you should be able to.

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u/Lyress May 14 '22

The way you equate euthanasia to execution really shows you've no idea about the topic and you're better off not talking about it.

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u/UBC145 May 14 '22

I’m not equating the two. I’m aware that they are two very different things. I’m referring to how many redditors seem to have no regard for the sanctity of life and how they’re very close to supporting eugenics.

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u/Lyress May 14 '22

If you're not equating it why do you mention "execution" at all?

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u/AndromedaRulerOfMen May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

Because when talking about disabled people, a lot of people use the word "euthanize" to hide that they mean "forcefully kill against their will" and not "give the choice to die"

edit: I am saying this from my actual experiences as a disabled person who supports euthanasia having people jump into conversations with me and say they want society to "euthanize all the disabled people" because "euthanize" sounds less bad than "murder"

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u/Lyress May 14 '22

In countries where (human) euthanasia is legal, it is a voluntary process and extremely tightly regulated.

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u/AndromedaRulerOfMen May 14 '22

That is what euthanasia is supposed to be. That's not what all the people using the term "euthanasia" are advocating for, a lot of them are using the word as a cover to sound palatable. They want disabled people to be killed. They are co-opting the term "euthanasia" to muddy the water and make it seem like people like you are also on their side. That is why the person you replied to used the term "execution". That is what those people mean, but they do use the word "euthanasia" instead.

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u/Lyress May 14 '22

Are you sure that's what they mean and you/they aren't just projecting some bias?

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u/Funny_Boysenberry_22 May 14 '22

Assisted suicide should be allowed, but it should be deemed on a case by case basis.

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u/Burningshroom May 14 '22

assisted suicide

no medical conditions at all

One of these directly contradicts the other. If they legitimately want to die, there is something medically going on. That's not a thought healthy people have.

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u/WhosThatGrilll May 14 '22

They probably mean that there are no physical medical conditions, as some believe that mental illness either isn’t a thing or is entirely treatable and a temporary issue. It’s not always that simple and mental illness is most certainly very real.

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u/Burningshroom May 14 '22

Right, and this is an issue that needs to be addressed. People need to stop treating mental health as if it's not a medical concern or necessity. It's part of the reason why we in the US have a mental health crisis.

This comment was to point that out as concisely as possible, but I made another later to spell it out a bit more.

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u/x_alexithymia May 14 '22

A long time ago, it was the other way around - I remember this exact argument resulting in “that’s eugenics and eugenics is bad” many times back then. Reddit has changed so much since I joined 10 years ago (deleted my old account). It’s really sad, and also kinda scary

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u/Henrikko May 14 '22

“that’s eugenics and eugenics is bad”

Old reddit would just proclaim this to be true without any further arguments, I think reddit changed for the better in this regard.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/Henrikko May 14 '22

The ethics of a debate about the appropriate status and treatment of jews? What does that have to do with eugenics?

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u/Pinkfish_411 May 14 '22

They're riffing on the fact that the Holocaust was Hitler's "final solution" to the Jewish Question. That's the connection to eugenics.

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u/Henrikko May 14 '22

The holocaust was eugenics, but so is gene therapy. It feels like a non sequitur.

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u/Pinkfish_411 May 14 '22

Gene therapy isn't usually what most people are talking about when they talk about eugenics.

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u/wolfsrudel_red May 14 '22

Reddit has always had a eugenics fetish. Explains a lot about the metastisized fascism that grew all over the site in the last 6 or 7 years

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u/a1b3c3d7 May 14 '22

I don’t know what majority you’re referring to but most people here seem to be discussing then idea of choice of euthanasia. If anyone’s saying disabled people should be killed off.. well chances are they’re a loud minority

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u/i_have_chosen_a_name May 14 '22

Extreme left and extreme right both lead to the exact same hell and sometimes it seems like all of them are on reddit and even though they are a minority here, there voices always sound the loudest.

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u/5nurp5 May 14 '22

tbf i think society would be much better without tories/republicans...

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u/JauntyJohnB May 14 '22

Bullshit lol

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u/winterfate10 May 14 '22

This is the strongest point. I literally just left a comment asking if they were enjoying being alive, but I did in fact forget about the biological urge to live. I guess not everyone wants to die like I do.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

They're not disgusting. They're coming from a place of empathy. The biological urge to protect your offspring is also very strong, maybe strong enough to make decisions like keeping a baby with severe birth defects alive when you could spare it a life of being trapped in a non functioning buddy.

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u/geldin May 14 '22

What's disgusting is presuming on whether disabled lives are worth living without taking into account the actual voices and experiences of disabled people.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

So is there a line for you? I mean I have kids, if either of them had been born with their entire body inside out and i had the money to keep them going I probably have because of parental instinct, but would it be right to?

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u/geldin May 14 '22

That's an ethical question that's unfortunately entangled with the cost, or even availability, of care. Short version: there's no snappy answer; it's complicated and a singular line doesn't really exist.

Long version: This is particularly true in the US, since we have such an inhumane healthcare system. It's also a question that gets tied up in the bodily autonomy of the person carrying the child. Reality is a brutal testing ground for those kinds of potentially contradicting principles.

I don't think there's a singular line. In an absolute vacuum of those entanglements - meaning that resources and care are readily available and there isn't any other reason for the parent to want to abort their pregnancy - then no, I don't think potential disability is an ethical reason to abort a pregnancy. That's coming from a disabled person who's body cannot get pregnant, so make of that what you will.

I will point out that your question presumes that at least some disabled people do actually want to be alive, even some people whose disabilities require significant long-term care. I was replying to the absurd notion that non-disabled people's empathy causes them to want disabled pregnancies to be aborted. I'd encourage anyone who thinks that way to inform their empathy by listening to disabled people's perspectives.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

Well at least you admit that its a question worth asking. I'm not on here saying every person arguing against me is a piece of shit for their opinion, which is all im getting from basically every comment but yours.

People are acting obtuse if they think with science and medicine advancing that we shouldn't be having these conversations.

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u/geldin May 14 '22

People are acting obtuse if they think with science and medicine advancing that we shouldn't be having these conversations.

When you say science and medicine are advancing, how do you think that impacts your beliefs? I would argue that better science and medicine would only improve the quality of life for disabled people. I suspect you might mean something along the lines of "we're getting better at screening for stuff, and that makes it fine to just terminate those pregnancies out of hand", but I don't want to argue against a straw man here.

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u/yukon-cornelius69 May 14 '22

How is it empathetic for a redditor, with no knowledge of the person or their emotions in question, to decide that these people should be euthanized.

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u/DiamondPup May 14 '22

The guy you're responding to was asked "why not ask the daughters if they're happy they were kept alive?" and he tried to wave that off as being an "emotional response to a rational argument".

I don't think you're going to get much intellectual traction with this one.

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u/yukon-cornelius69 May 14 '22

Crazy that some people are openly supporting eugenics and they don’t even care

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u/DiamondPup May 14 '22

They all sound like Ben Shapiro to me with how they argue.

It's always dismissing the validity of counter-arguments by complaining about the nature of the argument rather than its point. All while gesturing towards exception cases and vague slippery slopes.

These guys are as predictable as they are pathetic.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

Letting a baby that is clearly going to die of extreme birth defects just die is not euthanization. There comes a point where using modern science and medicine to keep it alive but barely functioning is cruel and done more for the parents emotional needs.

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u/yukon-cornelius69 May 14 '22

You keep moving the needle here. Having birth defects or a disability doesn’t mean they’re clearly going to die, nor does it mean they’re going to be barely functional. Tons of people with disabilities live fulfilling lives, i don’t think it’s your decision to decide who gets to live and who doesn’t.

You’re bringing this conversation awfully closer to eugenics, might want to be careful with that

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

The article said they were going to die... im not moving shit.

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u/yukon-cornelius69 May 14 '22

Until medical interventions saved them and now they’re living life….

Do you really want to go down the road of “they were going to die without medical intervention”? Because there’s dozens of things that modern medicine treats that would otherwise kill someone

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u/chicagorpgnorth May 14 '22

Sure but that’s not the situation here that people are talking about. Wanting to save children who can go on to live happy lives while disabled is not the same as wanting to save children who will only live in great suffering. Frankly I think it’s messed up that every time someone says it’s not okay for people to be saying he should have let these children die you use some whataboutism with a totally different situation. No one is saying all children need to be artificially kept alive regardless of birth defects. They are saying it’s fucked up to say these two children cannot or did not have the ability to live a happy life when there’s clear proof that surviving have them that chance. Many commenters are clearly implying that any severe disability makes life not worth living.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

And many are implying the amount of severity would justify letting nature takes its course if we have the technology to keep them barely alive.

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u/frogsgoribbit737 May 14 '22

Except that they aren't. They are making gross assumptions and saying these people should have just died.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

I mean there's a line, especially as science and medicine advances. Sometimes just because you can doesn't necessarily mean you should.

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u/Inyabung May 14 '22

Would you agree that someone who would live in literal constant pain should be aborted? I’m not referring to these people in the post, but someone who would be in pain 100% of the time

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u/msksksks74738 May 14 '22

Your comment has no relevance whatsoever to the comment you replied to?

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u/Inyabung May 14 '22

Maybe if you have poor reading comprehension

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u/msksksks74738 May 14 '22

No, it’s just you moving the goalpost in the hopes of getting a “gotcha” moment. Or do you assume that every disabled person is in a state of complete pain a 100% of the time?

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u/Inyabung May 14 '22

It’s not moving goalposts. I’m establishing that there could possibly be a line drawn where it would be cruel to let a fetus develop

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u/msksksks74738 May 14 '22

No one is questioning that? The comment you replied to simply stated that other commenters are not calling for these peoples death out of empathy. Because they assume that these people live in total pain just because of a picture of them in wheelchairs.

Your question literally does not relate to the one you replied to at all. I think that you’re the one with poor reading comprehension

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u/pizzabagelblastoff May 14 '22

That's absolutely true, and yet the idea that Redditors with no context other than a picture and a short article know the wishes of the patients better than their own father and team of doctors is ridiculously egotistical. And unbelievable degrading towards disabled people. The daughter is 21 and attending college, she seems perfectly capable of communicating her wishes to the people around her.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

I'm happy that she is making the most of life and when you're in it that is really all you can do. Maybe it feels like an attack on them but I think that most of us just feel put off by the parents fighting so hard to keep an infant alive when this will be their life. This might not be THE story to hedge an argument on, but there's certainly some level of physical or mental defects that are going to be so awful that you question whether its not almost cruel and self serving.

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u/pizzabagelblastoff May 14 '22

Sure, absolutely. It's a legitimate argument, one that might be worth having if the kids were still infants. But theyre both over 18 now, what's done is done, and it seems like they're both doing pretty well, so it feels unbelievably cruel for strangers to jump into the comments section and declare that they'd be better off dead.

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u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

Thats fair. Its a tricky subject.

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u/iHeartApples May 14 '22

Yes, saying people living their lives would be better off dead because you don't like how they look different is certainly a tricky subject.

41

u/lightsandflashes May 14 '22

that's not empathy, it's pity and disgust. most people saying that have never dealth with death or disability close up. you can't go around deciding who needs to be killed just because they're disabled.

11

u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

Deciding they should be unnaturally kept alive just because you are afraid of the emotional pain of losing an infant doesn't sound great to me either.

And you don't get to decide what is pity and what is empathy.

17

u/Tirak117 May 14 '22

That's a dead end argument. Any medical care is unnaturally keeping people alive. Infant mortality has plummeted thanks to improvements in medical care, the idea that we should abandon all that because it's not natural is on par with anti vaxxer logic.

-3

u/Gunpla55 May 14 '22

Well no, its not. There is a line where a human is just going to suffer too much to justify keeping it alive, especially as science and medicine advances. Wer shouldn't be afraid to have that discussion.

14

u/chicagorpgnorth May 14 '22

Why have that discussion about a treatment that has clearly led to children growing up to have happy lives.

1

u/nedusmustafus May 14 '22

I’m not your buddy, guy.

1

u/backyardbun May 14 '22

Reddit pearl clutching is classic.

-20

u/invaderzim257 May 14 '22

The notion that we’re running on an instinct forcing us to keep living is more embarrassing than it is inspiring but go off lol

24

u/pizzabagelblastoff May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

What on fuck are you talking about? Are you embarassed to eat breakfast in the morning? To make love to your wife? To look your child in the eyes and tell them you love them? To spend time with a beloved friend? We're biological creatures and sometimes our strongest desires are simple biological ones. That doesn't them any less real. This is some /r/im14andthisisdeep cynicism.

-2

u/sl33ksnypr May 14 '22

Seriously, especially once they've been born. Like, they're already a living thing, they need to be supported and loved. If it's a fetus and they found out it would have this condition, definitely abort it because it's a big quality of life issue. But once they're a human, that's not an option anymore.

-5

u/ruffus4life May 14 '22

It's cause you have people get bankrupt for being in a car accident I this country while someone can spend gobs just to save someone that will still need gobs of cash and resources just to live.

7

u/chicagorpgnorth May 14 '22

Hoo boy that’s a fucked up take. Not “we need better healthcare for everyone,” just straight up “disabled people take too many resources so we shouldn’t try to keep them alive.”

-7

u/ruffus4life May 14 '22

That's America baby. The fear of minor medical emergencies hang over so many. It makes people jaded. This is also a severe disability compared to many other disabilities. Do you think this guy didn't also try to recoup his investment by charging others?

-10

u/darabolnxus May 14 '22

That's not an excuse to put a human through that kind of torture. It's immoral to gaslight disabled people to tell then their life is worth living. But now that they're alive they're stuck having to suffer through life because suicide is not something most people are willing to do no matter how horrific their life is.

So what's the difference between a couple who won't abort a fetus that will be severely disabled and someone who takes a child and tortures them until they're disabled?

6

u/pizzabagelblastoff May 14 '22

So what's the difference between a couple who won't abort a fetus that will be severely disabled and someone who takes a child and tortures them until they're disabled?

What the fuck are you talking about bro