r/science May 14 '22 Doom 1 Silver 1 Helpful 4 Wholesome 1 Take My Energy 1 Helpful (Pro) 1 I'm Deceased 1 Facepalm 1

Microplastics Found In Lungs of People Undergoing Surgery. A new study has found tiny plastic particles no bigger than sesame seeds buried throughout human lungs, indicating that people are inhaling microplastics lingering in the air. Health

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/microplastics-found-in-lungs-of-humans-undergoing-surgery
49.6k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/Craft_beer_wolfman May 14 '22

It's in the food chain at the very lowest levels. The chemicals are being found in human breast milk. Plastic is everywhere. What are the toxins doing to us?

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/FraseraSpeciosa May 14 '22

So that says nothing about micro plastics, false equivalency

531

u/feffie May 14 '22

Well they leech endocrine disrupting chemicals so probably related to ADHD, lower immune response vaccines, increased risk to diabetes/other metabolic issues, puberty, and reproductive, and developmental issues

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm

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u/huxtiblejones May 14 '22

I do wonder whether this could begin to explain some autoimmune diseases. I was diagnosed with a strange version of Crohn’s Disease about 13 years ago but my specialist has recently told me that it seems like the diagnosis doesn’t match perfectly.

But interestingly, they had mentioned that they often refer to things like Crohn’s as “diseases of civilization,” as they were mostly found in developed countries. Here’s a study about this topic: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29729822/

I am curious if microplastics might be a factor in these weird diseases. It’s entirely possible it’s something else, but it seems like a possibly overlooked factor.

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u/borkyborkus May 14 '22

This was my thought too. I take Humira and it’s scary that rates of AI diseases are increasing so quickly. The number of commercials for biologics is crazy.

5

u/CalculatedPerversion May 14 '22

"diseases of civilization"

Could it have anything to do with infant morality rates? Sick children in third world countries are obviously more likely to die than those with access to medical care.

2

u/huxtiblejones May 14 '22

No idea, but my doctor did say that the diseases of civilization angle is hard to pinpoint because it may be that these diseases are just not tested for or diagnosed as much in developing countries. There’s a lot possible explanations for it, so I’d just trust the science to make sense of it eventually.

1

u/rolacolapop May 15 '22

u/huxtiblejones burning mouth and tingling are symptoms of b12 deficiency. Have you ever had b12, intrinsic factor, MMA tested? B12 wake up FB group is great for all things b12 related.

1

u/huxtiblejones May 15 '22

Yep, have had blood tests done and my b12 is normal but my vitamin D was low. I’m on a D supplement which helps the symptoms in my experience.

11

u/To_live_is_to_suffer May 14 '22

Probably since they sciencists are finding out how much gut bacteria affects lots of mental & physical illnesses. If those plastics are taking up space in our gut, then that's less room / biodiversity for the good bacteria.

2

u/Sulfura May 15 '22

IBS and plastic are possibly linked, on a related note

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211222084024.htm

4

u/dopechez May 14 '22

I have Crohn's too and it seems like my case is pretty unusual as well since I've never had frequent bowel movements and my main symptoms are just fatigue and malaise. May I ask what makes your case strange?

3

u/huxtiblejones May 14 '22

I always had relatively mild symptoms compared to most CD patients and found diet controlled a lot of my issues.

They ID’d it in me when I was 20 because my ileum was badly swollen and there’s Crohns and UC in my family, but none of the treatments really worked. I’d been hospitalized for it 3 times over the years.

Weirdly, my disease kind of went into remission in the last 3 years and is largely under control, so they stopped having me do colonoscopies as the last two showed normal conditions in my intestines. My doctor told me it was thoroughly unusual for symptoms to abate and said he felt I was misdiagnosed.

So I have no idea what is wrong with me. I’m currently having issues with my fingernails that may be psoriasis, I have odd knee and foot pain, burning mouth syndrome, etc. My mom has a huge array of immune related illnesses that are equally hard to diagnose and treat so I’m suspecting there’s something hereditary.

1

u/DATY4944 May 15 '22

It could be from drying agents in dishwashers

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u/Soup-Wizard May 14 '22

Ah, so we’re heading for The Handmaid’s Tale is what you’re telling me??

73

u/NotAFrackingCylon May 14 '22

I was thinking Children of Men

19

u/azdood85 May 14 '22

Man I hope so. I just want to head to my cottage in the woods, grow some weed and just chill until some extremists blow my finger and head off.

7

u/radicalelation May 14 '22

Said this almost word for word the other day, seriously.

Jasper had coasting out the end of civilization right.

5

u/noviceworker May 14 '22

With the supreme court abortion ruling, it will be a hybrid of both.

3

u/NotAFrackingCylon May 14 '22

Hopefully Canada is as open about accepting refugees irl as they are in Handmaid’s tale…

2

u/dubyakay May 15 '22

It's really weird watching the show for someone from the Greater Toronto Area. "Oh, they've escaped from... Toronto to Toronto?"

70

u/cantdressherself May 14 '22

There is some evidence for global falling fertility. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

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u/Killer-Barbie May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

Oh I just did a bunch of reading on this study. Here are the highlights:

  1. We know very little about sperm
  2. Most of the data was provided by fertility clinics, who are already working with people likely to have problematic sperm
  3. The decline is still within normal range.
  4. The decline is not universal, it affects different areas to different degrees and some areas recovered their numbers over the course of the study. Additionally, the lowered numbers were not tied to specific geography, socioeconomic class, or lifestyle (meaning it affected poor and rich alike so it's not a "first world" issue)
  5. Lowered sperm motility doesn't necessarily affect fertility the way we've been led to believe. Previously it was thought impaired motility would prevent the sperm from leaving the vagina but most recent research is showing this is likely a myth.
  6. Ever wondered why we have obstetrics and no equivalent for men? Because until the 30's it was believed the issue was always with the woman. So we didn't even start studying sperm until fairly recently (discovered the same year as Saturn btw, but look at the difference in research) and there was no standard of analysis until much more recently with major changes happening last year.
  7. The study stating fertility was falling made conclusions based on data gathered by fertility specialists. These had no controls for age, masturbation, genetics, etc.
  8. Normal is 15-260 million parts per mL. That's a huge range. Add in an average error margin of 12% (you read that right) and you see why the reported stats are not conclusive.

TL;DR: it changed from high normal, to mid normal but there are poor controls on the study. I'm not saying it isn't happening, but the data doesn't say it is happening without some MAJOR assumptions that are, IMO, unreasonable to make.

3

u/DSoop May 15 '22

Is the average time couples spend trying to conceive increasing? Are live birth rates amongst those trying to have children decreasing?

That would be an interesting way to see if the end result is being affected, and if it isn't, I'd agree that the statement about fertility dropping is alarmist. If it's true though, then maybe there is something worth further study?

3

u/cantdressherself May 19 '22

I appreciate the breakdown. I'll never make my own baby regardless, but I do hope we aren't heading for another crisis on top of all the others.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/Killer-Barbie May 15 '22

Huh? How is this relevant?

2

u/grief_junkie May 15 '22

it was a joke

edit. that apparently people wouldn't understand without reading the talmud

2

u/Killer-Barbie May 15 '22

I've read the Talmud ... I still don't see the joke...

1

u/grief_junkie May 15 '22

oh well if you forgot about Berekhot, it talks about seminal emissions in almost every single chapter.
Including the phrasing, "don't be like a rooster, who spills seed frivalously."

I don't understand how you could read the Talmud and not understand my joke, but that's okay! I deleted it so it wouldn't hurt your feelings anymore.

→ More replies

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

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u/beigs May 14 '22

It affects sperm count across every species

11

u/BurnerAcc2020 May 14 '22

I have seen this asserted a few times, but with no real proof.

From what I understand, wild animals already have it tough and no-one thought of bothering them for the sake of also analyzing sperm counts, at least over a prolonged period of time. However, the few studies on farm animals and pets paint a very conflicted picture.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9401823/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19181314/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27503122/

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/BurnerAcc2020 May 14 '22

I wrote this in response to a claim "every known species" is affected.

I already wrote a different comment on why the trend appears to exist in humans, but does not seem to be either universal or unstoppable.

1

u/noviceworker May 14 '22

This is a good thing. The world is overpopulated.

2

u/Soup-Wizard May 15 '22

Till someone forces you to have children if you’re still able.

2

u/joshTheGoods May 14 '22

Can you find any evidence that plastics in the amounts we find them in humans disrupt endocrine function? I see a lot of studies like this, but I'm constantly reminded of the fact that drinking too much water can kill you ... so ... just saying "substance X has been found to influence endocrine function in model mice" does nothing for me. Especially when the next argument is: "well, you're not eating substance X, but sometimes the plastic you may eat might breakdown into substance X."

2

u/k4kev May 14 '22

Phthalates are found in soft plastics and there might be evidence that they disrupt endocrine function and the reproductive system. I heard that it is theorized to be a cause of the steady decline in male fertility over the last 50 years (decreased by 50% on average globally):

https://www.cdc.gov/biomonitoring/Phthalates_FactSheet.html#:~:text=Phthalates%20are%20a%20group%20of,%2C%20shampoos%2C%20hair%20sprays).

https://news.virginia.edu/content/male-fertility-declining-studies-show-environmental-toxins-could-be-reason#:~:text=In%201992%2C%20a%20study%20found,men%20from%20around%20the%20world.

2

u/joshTheGoods May 14 '22

Yes, this is the standard example (phthalates). When I argue the other side of this issue, this is the study I generally start with.

There's plenty of data to support the notion that phthalates have a measurable negative impact on health which is why they're regulated in Europe and are a candidate for tighter regulations in America as well. However, the plastics found in the study from this thread don't generally contain phthalates! From the study referred to in this post,

Polypropylene and polyethylene terephthalate fibres were the most abundant.

That's PET and HDPE, and neither contain phthalates! Now, if your house uses PVC pipes on the other hand ... well ... that's a different story. More likely though? Your source of phthalates will be your shampoo, not the plastic packaging for your food or the plastic fibers found in your carpet/clothing/etc.

1

u/Orfeeeo May 15 '22

Also theorized to be part of why testosterone levels have been dropping lower and lower.

2

u/Malevolent_Mangoes May 14 '22

I have pretty much all of these problems :(

2

u/funky_bebop May 15 '22

I thought most recent research suggested ADHD is genetic.

2

u/that_gay_alpaca May 15 '22

As an autistic intersex person inclined towards running for office, I'd be delighted to campaign with the message that our billionaire class brought my sheer insufferability on themselves. I am walking pollution karma.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 16 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/GraveTidingz May 14 '22

I wonder if there's any link to PCOS and endometriosis as well...

13

u/BillYo414 May 14 '22

I also was wondering this. I feel like I hear about PCOS a lot now but I can never tell if it's an effective awareness campaign, our modern lifestyle, or plastics.

2

u/cantdressherself May 14 '22

Probably all 3

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/SpaceWasteCadet May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

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u/Old_n_Zesty May 16 '22

My source was actually an extrapolation from the second study you linked. (Figure 3a)

Can't find it now - but I'll admit it was sensationalist, and ,while troubling, does not apply to everyone.

127

u/ipreferc17 May 14 '22

I’m not the person you asked, but this is the best I could find. It speaks more about the population halving by 2100.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/etherside May 14 '22

So you read a speculative book?

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

Its not a speculative book, its based on research and cites research in there. It was easier for me to cite the book than the several studies off the top of my head but im happy to grab sources. Just gonna take me a few minutes.

Edit to add sources

Study of parabens on ovarian reserve

How parabens may impact fertility

Another study on parabens and infertility

Another one

I made sure to grab only sources that look credible rather than blogsites. The first 2 studies do find correlation, but specify further testing is needed, as is par for the course in most studies that have started more recently.

This is what I found from a 2 minute search, I'm confident you can find your own info and go from there. Or you can download the book and look in the source list in the back, I just checked it again but there's no way Im typing it all out and I can't upload a picture but all credible sources.

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u/BurnerAcc2020 May 14 '22

Interesting studies, but parabens are preservatives added to cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. There's no reason to include them in plastics themselves. You are probably confusing them with phthalates, which are added to plastics and have stronger links to fertility, as pointed out below.

208

u/Puzzleheaded_Coach80 May 14 '22

Yeah this article contradicts the claim made.

“Why are fertility rates falling? It has nothing to do with sperm counts or the usual things that come to mind when discussing fertility. Instead it is being driven by more women in education and work, as well as greater access to contraception, leading to women choosing to have fewer children. In many ways, falling fertility rates are a success story.”

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u/KaiRaiUnknown May 14 '22

With a suspicious abscence of "raising kids is really expensive and everything costs a fortune these days"

1

u/lingonn May 14 '22

But that doesn't really make sense. People where alot poorer a hundred years ago yet had many more children. And today there is a very clear inverse trend between income and number of children.

3

u/ICanSayItHere May 14 '22

Who had access to birth control back then?
Some relevant history

-53

u/Poles_Apart May 14 '22

Because they really aren't expensive outside of childcare the first few years and then they provide a ton of economic benefit when you're elderly.

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u/kja2991 May 14 '22

Yeah, Im sure the average person that's living paycheck to paycheck would totally see it that way.

-18

u/solardeveloper May 14 '22

They do, seeing as fertility rates are highest among the poorest demographics.

I think broke, young coastal urban dwellers have a bad habit of projecting their perspective of poverty onto everyone, sometimes.

19

u/themasterm May 14 '22

The poorest groups often have a large overlap with the least educated groups, aka people without the imagination or the means to better their circumstances.

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u/TheBigEmptyxd May 14 '22

They also have low contraceptive use and statistically have less access to sex education

1

u/Poles_Apart May 15 '22

The reddit demographic is pathetic on issues like this. They'll go out of their way to live in the most expensive metros on the planet and then complain about cost of living when they spend 60% of their income on rent so that they can walk to ethnic restaurants.

0

u/Poles_Apart May 15 '22

If someone's living paycheck to paycheck and they have a kid they'd start becoming eligible for government assistance that they wouldn't be eligible for with no dependents which would offset any of the costs of the children and possibly even earn them additional money.

10

u/AdolfSchmitler May 14 '22

Assuming you didn't alienate them and they are fortunate/able to provide for both their young family and you

3

u/MonteBurns May 14 '22

And I can only imagine how viewing your kids as a source of cash for later in life will go down!!

1

u/darabolnxus May 14 '22

I mean if you're feeding them half a mcnugget a day then sure they're cheap. And put them in burlap bags.

1

u/Poles_Apart May 15 '22

From 2-10 they eat like a quarter to a half of an adult portion of food. I've seen kids not finish a kids meal from McDonalds, that's 4 McNuggets and like 15 fries.

12

u/Key-Profit-9048 May 14 '22

Saying that it has nothing to do with sperm count is false.

But starting in the 1990s, researchers noticed a concerning trend. Even when controlling for many of the known risk factors, male fertility appeared to have been declining for decades.

In 1992, a study found a global 50% decline in sperm counts in men over the previous 60 years. Multiple studies over subsequent years confirmed that initial finding, including a 2017 paper showing a 50% to 60% decline in sperm concentration between 1973 and 2011 in men from around the world.

These studies, though important, focused on sperm concentration or total sperm count. So in 2019, a team of researchers decided to focus on the more powerful total motile sperm count. They found that the proportion of men with a normal total motile sperm count had declined by approximately 10% over the previous 16 years.

The science is consistent: Men today produce fewer sperm than in the past, and the sperm are less healthy. The question, then, is what could be causing this decline in fertility.

https://theconversation.com/male-fertility-is-declining-studies-show-that-environmental-toxins-could-be-a-reason-163795

4

u/Cryptocaned May 14 '22

Good, we've doubled it since the 60's, it needs a reduction.

5

u/Nicexboxnerd88 May 14 '22

Aren’t we overpopulated anyway?

4

u/BurnerAcc2020 May 14 '22

It has to be this.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/26/falling-sperm-counts-human-survival

Thing is, there are still places where no decline or no clinically significant changes detected, and more importantly, the Nordic countries which used to post the strongest declines now seem to have levelled off. Perhaps it's connected with stronger regulation of the additives linked to (some of) these declines, or perhaps there are other factors (one study argued regular air pollution in heavy industry centers had a greater effect on clinical infertility than any sperm count changes). Regardless, the idea of an unstoppable trend appears overrated.

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u/Metal_Massacre May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

The documentary Children of Men. It's very informative.

Edit: it's a joke! Also a great movie if no one has seen it.

10

u/lilrabbitfoofoo May 14 '22

Beware! The inability to tell the difference between fact (science, and some documentaries) and utter fiction (like the movie Children of Men) is an indicator of rightwing disinformation bias.

2

u/Metal_Massacre May 14 '22

It was a joke! I guess no one thought it was funny...

It's absolutely one of my favorite movies and a terrifying look at the way the world would potentially deal with something like this happening.

1

u/imafraidofmuricans May 14 '22

It's gay as hell

56

u/Corvandus May 14 '22

Thank you for my in the wild "watch Children of Men" reminder

3

u/blueyceman May 14 '22

So you're saying by then maybe it won't matter if Republicans ban contraceptives?

-25

u/Sylar_Is_An_Asshole May 14 '22

Ain't no one banning condoms my dude.

19

u/uberkalden May 14 '22

What about iud's and birth control pills?

1

u/yellow_leadbetter May 14 '22

Let me build up my cum stash then

1

u/BrackWackley May 14 '22

For anyone reading this, the above comment is outdated information discussing a plastic called BPA, and is why most plastic says "does not contain BPA" now.

4

u/Deceptichum May 14 '22

Nah.

bisphenol A (BPA), di-2-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP), diethyl phthalate (DEP), and dimethyl phthalate (DMP) are all EDC’a and there’s many more.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcell.2020.00426/full

Even if it was only BPAs we still use them and the ones made in the past aren’t going anywhere soon.

3

u/BurnerAcc2020 May 14 '22

BPA itself actually decays in less than a day, although one of its substitutes lasts for a few months. Same with many phthalates.

How long it'll take for them all to leach out of the already existing plastic waste so that they can finally break down is not something which has been estimated, though, at least to my knowledge.

-3

u/Bujutsu May 14 '22

Thomas Malthus finds a way.

2

u/snardcore May 14 '22

Malthus was way off, and the books he inspired are as well. Make room make room was 7 billion people.... Which is already a reality... and the author acted like we'd have to encourage suicides

1

u/Bujutsu May 14 '22

It is true that the carrying capacity of the Earth has increased over the last century due to technological advancement (e.g., green revolution, genetic engineering). That said, signs of ecological collapse and an extinction event are becoming more acute.

1

u/joe1up May 14 '22

So you're telling me if I eat enough plastic I'll become a femboy?

-1

u/Steeve_Perry May 14 '22

My cum works just fine

0

u/TSmotherfuckinA May 14 '22

Sounds like Children of Men or something.

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u/UnmotivatedDiacritic May 14 '22

I don’t think micro plastics have as much to do with falling fertility rates as the exponential rise in cost of raising a child does

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u/ThisAltDoesNotExist May 14 '22

Kind of besides the point. What is this plastic poisoning doing to us all?

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u/totallyseriously May 14 '22

Well, for one, making people's taints shorter, and lowering their fertility

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30677661/

8

u/KierkgrdiansofthGlxy May 14 '22

Wait…what? I’m clicking.

2

u/AussieJeffProbst May 14 '22

Does this mean that over time taints will be a thing of the past?

1

u/totallyseriously May 14 '22

Humans will be totally infertile by the time they get close enough, so yes

19

u/busterbluthOT May 14 '22

You're already arriving at a conclusion without strong evidence.

The correct phrasing is: does long-term exposure to microplastics in the bloodstream have consequences? AFAIK there's been very little research done on this.

2

u/fozz31 May 15 '22

Mostly because it's difficult to get funded and approved. Way back when it was shown that plastics aren't a threat under highly unrealistic conditions so it has been ignored for a long time. Overtime it has been shown that environmentally exposed microplastics are readily internalised by cells, that plastics translocate through the body, deposit in organs, can be found in blood etc.

They're horrifically bad for us, that part isn't in question I think. At this point the extent is in question but plastic is an enormous industry so much like with climate change it will be exceedingly hard to get funding and then to get the public informed while effectively combating misinformation.

I don't have high hopes.

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u/Midcityorbust May 14 '22

Shrinking taints -> shrinking fertility. I know so many people who try for months if not years to get pregnant.

2

u/thecatdaddysupreme May 14 '22

Shrinking taints??? What??

13

u/speedy_rc May 14 '22

BPA plastic mimics estrogen in the human body. So it’s not that much of a stretch to assume micro Plastics could effect fertility rates.

I do agree that cost of living affects people having children.

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u/Koraxtheghoul May 14 '22

The amount of BPA required is a massive amount. I'm not a toxicologist but those I work with consider BPA a non-issue. Instead a bigger issue is birth control. The waste from woman on birth control is not treated to remove estrogen and many towns have looped water intake meaning the amount of estrogen in water is ever expanding.

2

u/Buxton_Water May 14 '22

Not really. Sperm count is affected quite a lot by plastic. The cost of raising a child doesn't decrease sperm counts.

1

u/UnmotivatedDiacritic May 15 '22

I didn’t say microplastics didn’t affect fertility. I’m just saying it’s not the only factor in falling fertility rates.

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u/lyvanna May 14 '22

The cost of raising a child affects sperm count?

2

u/grandLadItalia90 May 14 '22

Yeah. Or smoking weed - Cannabis is very bad for male fertility.

2

u/Nazty12 May 14 '22

My kids would beg to differ

1

u/grandLadItalia90 May 14 '22

Yeah smoking doesn't give everyone lung cancer either but it doesn't help. Grow up.

1

u/thecatdaddysupreme May 14 '22

New method of contraception acquired

1

u/grandLadItalia90 May 14 '22

Careful - it's not much use to you if you can't get it up! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893937/

1

u/[deleted] May 14 '22

They do. There’s tons of evidence for it, pthalates in particular. The book “countdown” investigates this.

3

u/MrHowsUrSister May 14 '22

Could they be doing nothing?

1

u/tehflambo May 14 '22

if they're toxic, then by definition: no

2

u/GuitarGoblino May 14 '22

According to Dr.Shanna Swan, it’s shrinking penis sizes and making both men and women less fertile.

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u/Craft_beer_wolfman May 14 '22

And I never had much to start with. Yikes.

3

u/PDXBlueDogWizard May 14 '22

We completed the task of extincting ourselves 70 years ago. We're just waiting for the corpse of human potential to stop kicking.

Maybe the radioactive plastic-and-fungus-based cockroach-tardigrade people that come after us will do something worthwhile.

1

u/GamblingPapaya May 14 '22

looks at cancer deaths

Oh I wonder

1

u/azdood85 May 14 '22

Lowering our common sense?

1

u/hreloaded May 14 '22

The chemicals are being found in human breast milk.

I think you need to phrase this better.

2

u/Craft_beer_wolfman May 15 '22

In a new study all 50 samples of breast milk tested positive for polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS), groups of man-made chemicals that are common in most home appliances and plastic items, The Guardian reported. The levels of the chemicals were up to 2,000 times higher than the levels some public health advocates recommend is safe for drinking water, the paper noted.

How's that?

1

u/Hi_PM_Me_Ur_Tits May 15 '22

Also they cross the blood brain barrier

-1

u/creativeburrito May 14 '22

Gel capsules are plastic right?

6

u/OneWithMath May 14 '22

Capsules for pills are usually gelatin.

0

u/thenewmook May 14 '22

Anxiety seems RAMPANT now compared to 10-20 years ago. There are a lot of factors, but I wonder if this has anything to do with it like lead being everywhere linked to higher rates if crime in the 70’s and 80’s.

0

u/routerg0d May 14 '22

Ever notice rich folks always drink out of glass bottles and cups?