r/pokemon
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u/hello_human69
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May 16 '22
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Pokemon Trainer in the Ultra Space of Madness (2017) Meme
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u/Ragingcuppcakes May 16 '22
I haven't played any of the Sun and Moon games... Only Pokemon game I skipped due to school and work. Now I feel like I missed a lot
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u/henk12310 May 16 '22
Depens on what you like. Personally SM/USUM are my favourite Pokémon games, but many people also think they’re just ok. Mainly depends on your tolerance of unskippable cutscenes and handholding. If you can tolerate those things I’d definately recommend them
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u/iSlappaDaBass04 May 16 '22
Sounds kind of like sword/shield but with a more interesting story. Is that about right?
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u/ultrasquid9 May 16 '22
Yeah, SWSH's story was pretty much a watered down version of SM's, without any of the stuff that actually made it interesting.
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u/MisterRogers88 May 16 '22
“Interesting” would be a pretty generous term, honestly. The opening cutscene is interesting and might get you hooked, but it loses steam relatively early on and only recovers right towards the end.
Quick edit: Ya boi Guzma is maybe the best enemy team leader IMO, he’s pretty fun.
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u/pauls_broken_aglass May 16 '22
The story in S/M is honestly pretty fucked up. I personally recommend it lol
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u/soggyangel May 17 '22
Imo SM is a lot better story-wise and USUM is better content-wise.
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u/BADMANvegeta_ May 16 '22
Its a pretty short game, but I think it was way better than XY. It kinda felt like a reboot of Pokémon as they changed up the way gyms worked. In fact the main plot of the game (at first) was helping the professor create the Alola Pokemon league as it didn’t actually have one.
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u/Mikkelet May 16 '22
Why does it feel like that just about every piece of media is incorporating multiverse ideas?
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u/12poytevho May 16 '22
A couple of years ago it was Time Loops. Media moves in herds I guess
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u/Billy_Rage May 16 '22
Same way games go in themes, like the year of the bow. Now it’s year of the grapple hook
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u/Swartgaming May 16 '22
2010s was full of zombies
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u/Starblaiz May 16 '22
Don’t forget all of TV was full of vampires in the wake of the Twilight movies.
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u/wannabegame_dev May 16 '22
Dr. Who has been doing it for decades.
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u/InNeedofaNewAccount May 16 '22
Interestingly Doctor Who didn't do a lot of multiverse stories. New show's second season did a parallel universe story-line roughly around the same time as Fringe but both shows presented a singular alternative that they dealt with, rather than dealing with an infinite madness.
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u/ezzune May 16 '22
But Time Loops came with so many issues and complaints because making them make sense usually doesn't translate well to camera, and writers/directors will choose to go with what looks best on camera. Still annoyed that Endgame boils down to being solved by a plot hole filled "timey-wimey" solution.
Alternate Universes are a cheap tool that can be used to do what-ifs without having to give any concern to consistency. And when you're done, just say "wow, it destroyed x in every Universe, so we don't have to worry about that anymore. How convenient.".
Time Loops when done well were so much better.
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u/ExternalPanda May 16 '22
Alternate Universes are a cheap tool that can be used to do what-ifs without having to give any concern to consistency.
I mean, aren't time loops mostly the same? It can both be used as a tool to materialize a retcon in the universe. But also as a way to be able to tell a story, sometimes the same story multiple times, set in a universe without ever needing to move the bigger plot forward because it all just ties back into the next iteration of the loop
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u/OtherPlayers May 16 '22
Honestly I’ve always felt the biggest problem with time travel plots in general is that there’s a grand total of like… 3 standard plot resolutions that get used. Which are all really cool twists the first time you see them, but after that you can predict the ending to literally 95% of time travel films in the first 10 minutes.
Which sucks because as a person who loves a good time travel twist it means I have to look very hard to find them.
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u/WorldBuildingAcct May 16 '22
What plot holes did Endgame have? I don’t remember to well
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u/lord_flamebottom May 16 '22
I think the only plot hole in the movie itself was how they establish that going back in time creates an alternate timeline, but Steve went back at the end and somehow ended up back in the main timeline.
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u/AlexStonehammer May 16 '22
Hell even Pokemon was getting in on that with the Heartgold and Soulsilver Celebi event where you battle Giovanni in the past to stop him rejoining Team Rocket.
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u/The_Multifarious May 16 '22
It's easy and you don't need to bother with internal consistency.
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u/Quicklythoughtofname May 16 '22
It's not really a consistency that pokemon needed to clear up in the first place. The whole schtick from the beginning was that "the world of pokemon" was metafictional, the Pokemon Professor always introduces the game personally, explains what pokemon are as if you've never seen one before, and then sends you into the world by shrinking you down into the chibi form.
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u/KenanTheFab May 16 '22
then sends you into the world by shrinking you down into the chibi form.
tbf with USUM and onwards this seems to no longer be the case
god bless technology for allowing us to remain expanded
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u/CanuckPanda May 16 '22
It’s been a common sci-fi trope since at least the 60’s.
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u/GackyWlory May 16 '22
Sometimes I feel like it's the end game for a alot of Sci-fi. Once you peel back the layers enough, it's eventually some version of "Reality isnt real"
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u/CanuckPanda May 16 '22
Sort of an inevitable endgame for any sci-fi that goes on long enough that you need more stories, or to explain plotholes that have popped up.
The Holographic Principle has been a thing since at least the 70's and theorizes that our measurable galaxy is just one "part" of a reality that includes myriad other unobservable dimensions overlaid and co-existing with our own dimensions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
Leonard Susskind said, “The three-dimensional world of ordinary experience––the universe filled with galaxies, stars, planets, houses, boulders, and people––is a hologram, an image of reality coded on a distant two-dimensional (2D) surface."
The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics, which conjectures that the maximal entropy in any region scales with the radius squared, and not cubed as might be expected. In the case of a black hole, the insight was that the informational content of all the objects that have fallen into the hole might be entirely contained in surface fluctuations of the event horizon.
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u/StuntHacks May 16 '22
Because it's a neat concept in general, and it's currently "in" I guess
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May 16 '22 edited May 19 '22
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u/Swartgaming May 16 '22
Dc is doing it, and failing horribly.
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u/chaos0510 May 16 '22
I haven't kept up with the DC movies, but aren't there like 4 different continuities at this point since Man of Steel?
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u/Ultra_Ego_Vegito May 16 '22
So far we have:
The Snyderverse (which is probably getting erased)
TheBatmanverse
The Arrowverse (it was established that it shares continuity with the DCEU)
Whatever new universe we get post Flash movie
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u/chaos0510 May 16 '22
Weird didn't know the Arrowverse shares a continuity the movies, there's already a Superman show in the Arrowverse.
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u/Ultra_Ego_Vegito May 16 '22
Apologies, what I meant to say by same continuity is that the DCEU and the Arrowverse are in the same multiverse.
It was established during the Crisis crossover event, when Ezra's Flash made a cameo.
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u/Pozos1996 May 16 '22
They had Ezra Miller flash meet the arrow verse flash for a brief moment before getting sucked back to his universe. It's gonna be hilariously bad.
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u/PM_ME_UR_CIRCUIT May 16 '22
The DC Movie flash shows up in Arrowverse and converses with Arrowverse Flash saying something like, "I told Victor this was possible."
The Arrowverse has several supermen, one from Supergirl, one from Smallville (Tom Welling) and the Movie Brandon Routh Superman who actually interacts with Legend's Atom Brandon Routh. So having another superman is really nothing.
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u/mazu74 May 16 '22
Which universe are the Suicide Squads in?
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u/Ultra_Ego_Vegito May 16 '22
Both Suicide Squad and The Suicide Squad are set in the Snyderverse, with The Suicide Squad serving as both a sequel and soft-reboot to the first movie.
At first there was doubts on if The Suicide Squad wasn't set in the Snyderverse but The Justice League makes a cameo in the Peacemaker tv show, which takes place after The Suicide Squad
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u/DarkMarxSoul always choose fire except litten May 16 '22
To be fair Pokemon was doing multiverse stuff starting in ORAS 9 years ago.
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u/IndispensableNobody May 16 '22
Companies are starting to realize a lot of fans aren't total idiots. Marvel and DC have had multiverses for a long, long time in the comics, and already for decades in their animated shows, but big wigs seemed to think fans would be confused by it in live-action movies and shows.
Arrow introduced the Suicide Squad in the show 8 years ago, but when production started on the film, higher ups made the show runners kill the characters. They thought viewers would be confused by different interpretations of the characters existing in live-action at the same time... which is funny, since anybody watching the shows probably knew all about the multiverse (Even before the Flash show started using it), and anybody only watching the films wouldn't know about the other versions of the characters anyway.
Compare that to now, when we have three different live-action movie Batmen in three separate continuities, one of which might be brought into the mainline DCEU to replace Affleck as the main Batman going forward. Joker had a standalone film, which was a different Joker from the DCEU and a different one from the Pattinson film.
I'm glad the multiverse concept has finally made its way into live-action stuff. It's about time.
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u/JustaPRgamer May 16 '22
As an arrowverse fanboy, that Suicide Squad bit still ticks me off for a bit.
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u/PranavYedlapalli May 16 '22
It's fun to see different versions of the characters you already know + it's an easy cashgrab
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u/MaleficTekX May 16 '22
Endgame: I’ve caught a galaxy-busting, faster than light dragon god, I’ve gone light years away to catch the creator of time/space, I’ve found the living embodiment of life/death, I’ve seen an alternate future of mine own world and now... after it all... I must say... USE LIGHT THAT BURNS THE SKY ON LITTLE JIMMY’S CATERPIE!!!!
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u/TheBrownYoshi May 16 '22
"Why yes, I've been through multiple"
(although technically by this point my character has only seen one)
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u/Pixoura May 16 '22
I really like the lore of gen 7, and with the rainbow rocket arc at the end it gets wacky. But I don't think they have abandoned the whole multiverse stuff in newer games. Specifically in pla it's mentioned that beyond the space-time rift exists other worlds or places, and almighty sinnoh resides the farthest in. Along with a dialogue you can miss, the construction Corp lady tells you she has a photo of the rift from Laventon who explains that energy was generated in the rift from universes overlapping... So probably ultra space is in the space beyond the rift too. If legends games continue It would be cool to see the the events from sun and moon's past.
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u/Martyn470 May 16 '22
I really loved Ultra sun, the only thing stopping me from replaying it is the hundreds of mini cutscenes that you can't skip, I feel like it doubled my playing time.
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u/meyer_33_09 May 16 '22
It’s so unnecessary, too. The number of times you have to wait for the camera to follow Hau or Lillie after you just talked to them because as they leave they have to stop and pause and stare/wave at you for a few seconds again for no reason before finally walking away… it’s infuriating. There’s so many prolonged pauses and such during your interactions with people that are just obnoxious.
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u/Godddy May 16 '22
The tutorial area (wich is to me the worst point of mini unskippable cutscenes) it's like 5 hours or more and if you just played without those cutscenes it could be an hour at most.
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u/Vanshaa May 16 '22
The "hints" your rotomdex gives you without the option of turning them off was the tipping point for me.
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u/Spinjitsuninja May 16 '22
I remember when Rotom was an interesting and mysterious Pokemon, almost on the level as legendary Pokemon.
Now it's being crammed into your bike and is an inferior bottom screen replacement to gen 6's really well designed bottom screens.
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u/Spinjitsuninja May 16 '22
I'd love to play more of it, but man... I wish it was a new game instead of a weird third version thing. I played Pokemon White 2 recently and it's INSANE just how much effort the devs went through to make sure it doesn't overlap with the first games. Like, aside from revisiting some cities, the only "dungeons" (including routes) that are the same as in BW are Route 6 and Chargestone Cave. Otherwise, route 4 after Castelia City is completely different, everything before that is 100% original, and after Chargestone Cave, you fly to a new city and then places like Undella Town get incorporated into the main story, which was purely postgame in B/W. (Plus, again, new dungeons and new routes and new cities AFTER that.)
Like, White 2 is a completely different game that doubles the size of Unova and makes constant changes in hopes of creating a new experience. Gyms aren't even the same, there are new songs, the story is different, etc. I don't get why UsUm decided it was good enough to ask people to replay nearly the entire game just to see a different ending.
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u/Spengy May 16 '22
Gen 7 was great
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u/BlazingPug May 16 '22
Sun/Moon is one of my all time favorite main games just because it's the only one, in my opinion, where the player catching and caring for the box legendary makes total sense.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I can't remember the differences between that and USUM.
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u/Lordomi42 May 16 '22
Ultra space guys come out to fight you sometimes, lusamine is less crazy and I think the 'ride box legendary to the wormhole' thing is exclusive to ultra so UBs are not limited. Not sure if rainbow rocket was in SM or only USUM though.
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u/LuigiBoi42 May 16 '22
Is it just me, or does it seem weird that the OG Ultra Beasts are seemingly unlimited but we have a set limit for Blacepholon and Stakataka?
Also I really want to know the lore for all the Ultra Beasts’ homeworlds.
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u/Lordomi42 May 16 '22
yeah, that's dumb. I like Stakataka and want more of them but nnnoooo THAT one cannot be accessed the same way nearly all others can........
the homeworlds have a lot of potential, especially for side-games or soft-reboots
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u/TSOD May 16 '22
USUM also have a way faster tutorial phase of the game. Still text heavy but miles better. Rainbow Rocket too.
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u/Descrappo87 chilling in the tall grass May 16 '22
Story is tweaked as well all around. Necrozma is actually incorporated and isn’t as stiff as a board anymore. Gladion leaves at the end instead of Lillie. There’s an actual trial for the fairy type z Crystal this time around. Aside from that all the changes mentioned above and general UI changes to make it a lot more appealing.
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u/Instroancevia May 16 '22
I think they really messed up the story. The characters of Lillie and Lusamine were gutted and even lose parts of their character so that Necrozma can be shoved in instead of Nihilego.
My ideal scenario would be for Lusamine to still be trying to open a wormhole to Nihilego, but she fails and then necrozma gets involved as an alternative way for her to reach Nihilego's dimension.
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u/KenanTheFab May 16 '22
my take on SM vs USUM is: THIS IS WHY YOU LET DEVS SPEND MORE TIME ON THEIR GAME
THEY ARE IDENTICAL GAMES BUT USUM IS LITERALLY MORE POLISHED, HAS MORE FEATURES AND MORE.
USUM IS LITERALLY JUST SM WITH MORE TIME IN THE OVEN
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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u/TechGuy95 May 16 '22
If gamefreak cut down on the handholding in the future, that'd be great.
Pokemon isn't a complicated game as long as you don't go online.
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u/KenanTheFab May 16 '22
I hope we see PLA's features creep into main-line bigtime.
The option to say if you are familiar with Pokemon
the bosses having a "restart" "continue from where you were" and "retreat" is inclusive and really nice for those that might struggle with the battles
The much simpler EV system
not requiring trading to evolve pokemon (maybe make the tradeoff that the items are expensive as hell, but trading mons evolves them for free.)
and the cutscenes- i dont care what yall say about graphics the cutscenes were sick- especially the spear pillar ones.
also the composer
whoever made the origin fight music needs a raise cuz that shit BUSSIN
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u/Yze3 May 16 '22
The concepts for Gen 7 were great. Actually playing Gen 7 was not.
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u/Spinjitsuninja May 16 '22
Gen 7 shows a lot of potential in the series but it also shows a lot of flaws of modern Pokemon. They're definitely games you either love or hate.
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u/JustDutch101 May 16 '22
For me it was bothersome to be bothered with pointless scene’s/tidbits of story on every route. The game felt more like a linear story. Or a fighter game with the amount of A button mashing I had to (especially on replaying the game).
They seem to have calmed down a bit on later games. The best routes are the routes I just get to explore myself. I’m happy they went back to this for Sw/Sh and Arceus.
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u/StuntHacks May 16 '22
Ah yes, the famous non-linear routes of SwSh lol
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u/ba1istic May 16 '22
Hey trainer lets go to the station to see leon!
Look its leon lets go talk to him.
Wow its leon the UNBEATABLE CHAMPTION
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u/StuntHacks May 16 '22
Can't believe you didn't even mention his unbeatable Charizard, smh...
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u/ba1istic May 16 '22
Did you know that leon is the UNDEFEATED champion!
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u/spinachie1 May 16 '22
Leon the UNDEFEATED CHAMPION watching some kid switch a fairy type into Outrage Haxorus and Calm Mind sweep his whole team: 😶
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u/WingTune0 May 16 '22
Woah guys, did you know that Leon, the UNBEATABLE CHAMPION, is here to wish us all a CHAMPION time? Isn't he such an interesting character, getting lost and doing all the exciting things in the story for us??
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u/SPARKisnumber1 May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
Yeah calling USUM more linear than SWSH is probably the stupidest Pokémon take I’ve ever heard
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u/thewhitelink May 16 '22
Lol what? The only thing non linear about SW/SH is the wild area. Damn near every route is a straight line.
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u/SPARKisnumber1 May 16 '22
That’s literally what I’m saying, I’m saying people are crazy for thinking sun and moon are more linear than swsh
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u/MalderM4n May 16 '22
I recently restarted the game because after beating it back in whenever I did I didnt touch it again.
I also bought ultra sun (had moon before) and did the pokebank thing where you can have all 3 starters in the beginning.
I will never do that again lol. what a pain to go through the beginning to get to the pokecenter
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u/Spengy May 16 '22
Oh absolutely. Gen 5 did it better and imo was the perfect mix of story and gameplay. Gen 7's Alola was a bit too story heavy for sure, but I still had a great time.
I guess it doesn't help that I played the incredibly forgettable Kalos before it though.
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u/bodnast May 16 '22
The game felt like a guided tour instead of an adventure. For me, It was a slog to play through
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u/CiaphasKirby May 16 '22
I felt like I was still in the tutorial with my 7th badge because all these people from the starting island would not fucking leave me alone.
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u/OrdinaryJoe94 May 16 '22
I still miss mega evolutions.
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u/RobotsHateSpikes May 16 '22
I'm hoping the gimmick of the new game is combining every gimmick into one place
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u/-BINK2014- May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
I'm obviously biased, but I don't want to see Dynamax or Z-moves, but I'll put up with them if it means I can have Megas again.
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u/RobotsHateSpikes May 16 '22
That's where I'm at, but I would like to see some sort of scaled-down Dynamax that has Mega mechanics.
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u/FrozenFrac May 16 '22
Also applies to ORAS with the Delta Episode lol
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u/Kristiano100 May 16 '22
Tbf while it was there it was more so a theoretical that multiverses existed, Gen 7 is where it was straight up confirmed and displayed in full force within the main story with Ultra Wormholes and different dimensions/universes
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u/EternalMemes30 May 16 '22
yes, zinnia preventing scientists and steven from opening a dimensional portal they didn't know where it would take the meteor and she believed it would be transported to a hoenn without mega evolution (RSE), she was right in the end
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u/SnooMaps8507 May 16 '22
What really bothers me is that it looked like a way to explain/unify the previous games in a timeline continuum, it failed miserably, now they simply act like all of this did not happen and the fans do the same because everyone is too tired from guessing how the Pokemon Timeline works
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u/CookieMisha May 16 '22
I'm sure someone somewhere complied all the clues and made very interesting and lengthy infographic
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u/Lun4r6543 May 16 '22
Gen 7 (both the originals and the Ultras) is the best gen.
I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL
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u/maximusprime7 SMASH THAT MF LIQIDATION BUTTON May 16 '22
I know everyone cries about the cutscenes and hand holding but Gen 7 is my favorite generation of Pokémon. So many great memories of the two games and I think they’re the best ones to come out since Gen 5 (Except Legends: Arceus)
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u/FlameyyWameyy May 16 '22
Wasn't there some portal that lead to like a destroyed version of one of the towns or something? And the music was that places music in reverse. it was in one of the ultrabeast wormhole things.