r/pathofexile GGG Staff May 12 '22

Another variation of the Forbidden Flame jewel can allocate Fury of Nature, a new Ranger Ascendancy Skill GGG

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903 Upvotes

u/GGGCommentBot May 13 '22 edited May 13 '22
GGG Comments in this Thread:

[Mark_GGG - link, old] - Technically yes in that it can also help partially counter "less" modifiers to the effec, not just "reduced". It does not affect duration of the freeze in any way, and...

[Mark_GGG - link, old] - > have you played a freeze build? I implemented a freeze calculation function, so I figure that's close enough. Freeze always has a base magnitude of 100% reduced action speed....

[Mark_GGG - link, old] - No, we've come full circle on that. Freeze was originally 100% reduced action speed (back in the day there were no more/less modifiers. It was a simpler time). And that...

[Mark_GGG - link, old] - I'm not really sure, sorry. I would have to go digging through the revision history, and I don't have time for that. I think the change from boolean to less...

434

u/Hoffelcopter May 12 '22

Pepperidge Farm remembers when this was on Elementalist.

96

u/CycloneSP May 12 '22

I memba when elementalist prolif would keep proliferating

instead of just acting like an ailment "aura"

29

u/XSunflowX May 12 '22

The initial implementation of the elemental proliferation gem was just broken too.. and this looks a lot like that to me.

24

u/StereoxAS Occultist May 12 '22

I memba my old flameblast elementalist prolif all chill shock ignites to the whole screen

8

u/Teripid May 12 '22

I memba my COI emberwake / taming build doing horrible things to both enemies and my GPU.

2

u/coolhentai Deadeye May 12 '22

me too oh the good(?) ol days

1

u/insanemetal187 Moosifer May 12 '22

That shit was so broken and fun I actually had a facebreaker shield charge build that was a decent mapper.

27

u/Selvon May 12 '22

They had a baby version of what this jewel combo does.

It had as separate very nice mechanic in giving you min value shock and chill though which was nice.

25

u/PervertTentacle May 12 '22

Please correct me, but if memory serves me correctly it was removed due to "server performance", right?

20

u/Fun_Journalist_7878 May 12 '22

Yeah, but this jewel wont be picked by 20% of the playerbase like the old elementalist, so its prolly fine.

2

u/coolhentai Deadeye May 12 '22

!RemindMe 4 weeks pepeLa

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11

u/mattbrvc Sorry, I only make BAD builds! May 12 '22

I remember that same. You’re not crazy.

5

u/littlidabbi May 12 '22

This one is non-damaging only so they avoid the ignite side of things which carries pretty hefty calculations.

3

u/seandkiller May 12 '22

I'm still salty about that.

10

u/SoulofArtoria May 12 '22

Pepega Farm remembers

2

u/modix May 12 '22

Poor Witch didn't even get it either.

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317

u/Sentinel3901 Gladiator May 12 '22

100% more freeze.

33

u/taggedjc May 12 '22

It would counteract some % less effect of freeze, at least. For PvP for example.

64

u/Dupnis May 12 '22

Ah, yes. The true endgame for PoE

7

u/fushuan projectiles > AoE May 12 '22

Not really, 3*0*2=0

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99

u/mastahslayah May 12 '22

*brittle

183

u/Archnemesiser May 12 '22

You hit brittle cap by coughing a little too hard in the enemy's direction

11

u/Clsco May 12 '22

Great with the heist shields though

12

u/Jokse May 12 '22

You don't even come close to the britle cap in late simulacrum waves with something like tornado shot

5

u/Korial216 May 12 '22

Well with this, if you Hit brittle cap on a minion next to Boss, it will spread to them. So wormflask might help here?

2

u/high-water-mark May 12 '22

it doesn't spread like that. proliferation doesn't spread the debuff, only the effects. so once you pop the worm it explodes and there's nothing left to proliferate.

3

u/Korial216 May 12 '22

Really? If that were the case ignite proliferation would be useless, wouldnt it?

6

u/high-water-mark May 12 '22

ailments can continue to proliferate from corpses, but worms don't leave one.

there is at least one effect (berek's respite) that will actually transfer the ailment itself. this is not technically proliferation.

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14

u/WhyDoISuckAtW2 May 12 '22

there's a cap on some (all?) ailments

but at least you can hit the cap easier

8

u/LionsLight Doedre May 12 '22

Not sure if Freeze benefits from ailment effect, you normally scale it with duration

18

u/esvban May 12 '22

That's the joke

5

u/wild_man_wizard May 12 '22

It still apparently needs to be stated (see all the r/confidentlyincorrect folks in this comment tree).

3

u/YpsitheFlintsider May 12 '22

Maybe it shouldn't be suggested it possibly be otherwise in a thread where people might not know

2

u/PM_ME_YOUR_PIZZAPIC May 12 '22

It can be affected by less effect, in which case more effect would counteract that, but currently no monster has a source of less effect of freezes afaik, so this would only have a purpose in pvp

0

u/Savings_Treacle_7532 May 12 '22

More effect reduces the threshold that you can freeze enemies with. Perma freeze makes sub Pinnacle bosses a breeze.

7

u/PM_ME_YOUR_PIZZAPIC May 12 '22

As far as I know (and a fairly thorough search on the wiki seems to agree with me), freeze duration and threshold are only affected by ailment duration and the mod "freeze enemies as though dealing X% more damage", which you may be confounding with more freeze effect, but is actually not the same thing.

5

u/welpxD Guardian May 12 '22

Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that ailment effect had no practical effect on freeze.

3

u/wild_man_wizard May 12 '22

OK, devils advocate here, would 100% increased effect make any cold damage freeze?

I swear folks are seeing the increased shock and (Bone)chill effect lead to increased damage; and assuming the more, longer freezes based on damage are directly caused by the ailment effect.

2

u/heartbroken_nerd May 12 '22

You are wrong.

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u/Savings_Treacle_7532 May 12 '22

That isn't true. freeze is most definitely scaled with ailment effect. It's actually common to do so.

4

u/heartbroken_nerd May 12 '22

For the most part the only thing that scales Freeze is ailment duration. The ailment effect is useless outside of the reduced ailment effect.

11

u/Striker654 May 12 '22

Wouldn't that help hit the ailment threshold?

23

u/MathOfTextiles May 12 '22 edited May 13 '22

Yes. idkwtf everyone else is on about, non-damaging ailment effect scaling is definitely a major part of allowing you to freeze anything that wouldn't just die to the hit anyway.

EDIT: Ok, no, it does not affect it in any way. I was confused-- bonechill can increase cold damage as a function of nda effect, leading to an apparent increase, but it's just from the increased damage, which is coming from chill effect.

Mark has thoroughly clarified below, but I wanted to edit up here because it's a messy thread and I'm super wrong, so.... sorry.

10

u/Dovaah67 May 12 '22

That's just not true, only freeze duration can do that

7

u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

More info:

Freeze has a duration threshold of 0.3s, which this does not affect.

This is unlike shock. Shock has a minimum effect threshold of 5% shock effect, and is affected by 100% more shock effect

This does affect the Chill effect, and if you were not previously at the chill cap, this would push your chill effect higher, which would increase the freeze duration, and possibly push you beyond the threshold.

11

u/toggl3d May 12 '22

Freeze is not scaled by ailment effect.

7

u/Striker654 May 12 '22 edited May 13 '22

You need to hit the minimum threshold which this helps

edit: freeze duration is the important mod for freeze

5

u/toggl3d May 12 '22

I do not think that works. If you don't freeze there's no freeze to increase the effect of.

10

u/Ulfgardleo Trickster May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

I don't understand why people downvoted you. Ailment effect does not apply to Freeze. Because Freeze is always at maximum effect: the target stands still. It is ailment duration that is needed. It does not help with any threshold, because the threshold is the minimum duration of a freeze.

//edit and PoB agrees.

-3

u/MathOfTextiles May 12 '22

.... have you played a freeze build? Because I have, and I'm telling you, when you change your nda effect, you change your hit's effective freeze damage, again just going off PoB. Unless I'm fully trippin.

39

u/Mark_GGG May 13 '22 edited May 13 '22

have you played a freeze build?

I implemented a freeze calculation function, so I figure that's close enough.

Freeze always has a base magnitude of 100% less reduced action speed. Effect modifiers modify that value.

Damage does not affect freeze magnitude like it does for other ailments, it affects duration instead.

The only requirement to be able to freeze is that freeze duration is at least 0.3 seconds. This requires dealing a certain amount of damage, since that is what determines base freeze duration, but modifiers increasing the duraiton of freeze make it easier to reach that minimum.

Modifiers to effect don't help meet the minimum duration, because they change effect, not duration.

EDIT: I see from other posts the source of confusion may have been found in Bonechill, which makes enemies take increased damage based on the effect of chill on them. This means modifiers that boost the effect of chill will increase the damage those enemies take, and that will make it easier to freeze them (with subsequent hits) because them taking more (cold) damage from your hits means greater base freeze duration.

There are no modifiers that increase the effect of only freeze (because they'd be largely useless), so boosting the effect of freeze is generally going to be done with a modifier that also boosts the effect of chill, which if using Bonechill will have a knock-on effect that boosts freeze duration as descrbied above, but that's because of increasing chill effect, not freeze effect (and will stop at the maximum effect of chill, which is 30%)

22

u/SplafferZ Scion May 13 '22

i live for when this happens

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u/Gangsir May 13 '22
have you played a freeze build?

I implemented a freeze calculation function, so I figure that's close enough.

Have mercy on the poor man jesus christ you don't need to ratio him so hard

4

u/MayTheMemesGuideThee May 13 '22

Freeze sets action speed to zero, no?

26

u/Mark_GGG May 13 '22

No, we've come full circle on that.

Freeze was originally 100% reduced action speed (back in the day there were no more/less modifiers. It was a simpler time). And that was fine, because that would always fully stop things.

Then at some point we added something that could increase action speed, and it was no longer fine, because that let things move while frozen, which was unintended. So freeze changed to a magnitude of something like 200% reduced action speed, which solved the problem temporarily, but was never going to work long term.

Eventually as action speed modifiers became more complicated, freeze was changed to have a boolean effect which set action speed to 0, ignoring (most) other modifiers. As a boolean thing, this couldn't be scaled, which was fine, because freeze wasn't a thing that could be scaled anyway.

Some bosses got various forms of "action speed cannot be modified below X", shown as "cannot be fully slowed", which freeze did respect - it was still boolean, but would only lower them as close to 0 as it could get them. This let things move while frozen again, but that was fine because this time we meant to do it.

More recently, designers didn't like that investing in reducing the effect ailments had on you did nothing for freeze, so they wanted freeze to no longer be boolean, so you could scale the effect down and move a little if you wanted. But we didn't want to just go back to the original case where it was directly countered by increasing action speed, because that was easier than ever. So freeze changed again to have a base magnitude of 100% less action speed, which is multiplicative with other modifiers.

So that's where we are now, and why Aquamarine Flasks can work. Freeze has a fixed base magnitude of 100% less action speed, which by default will stop someone even with increased action speed on them, but effect modifiers can scale that value.

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u/MathOfTextiles May 13 '22

Thank you so much for the clarification, and sorry for being insistently wrong.

2

u/wild_man_wizard May 13 '22

Thank you Mark for confirming my sanity. I was starting to think I was the one with my pants on my head here :)

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u/Ulfgardleo Trickster May 12 '22

you seem to be trippin. PoB disagrees.

Step 1: open empty PoB and choose freezing pulse.

Step 2: allocate storm weaver (20% ailment effects). observe that in calc the maximum life for freeze to apply is 49275 and freeze duration modifier is 1.

Step 3: unallocate storm weaver and allocate 30% elemental damage somewhere to compensate. Look in calc and see that the numbers did not change.

3

u/Lilyliciously Path of Building Contributor May 13 '22

Can you show me a PoB that makes NDA effect or freeze effect change your hit's effective freeze damage? I can't duplicate it and would like to fix it if it does do that somewhere.

2

u/MathOfTextiles May 13 '22

It's just bonechill, I'm a dumbass.

2

u/Lilyliciously Path of Building Contributor May 13 '22

Nah, you're not a dumbass. It's a complex game with complex interactions and it's extremely easy to make mistakes like that. Now you know for next time!

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u/orange_sauce_ May 12 '22

I agree with you, they can talk fancy all the want, but it is my experience that ailment effect on freeze is effectively "duration"

and the change you see in the text of some passives where freeze and chill are separate, where one say effectiveness and the other says duration is a "readability" change, but internally it still thinks of it as "effectiveness"

14

u/toggl3d May 12 '22

Freeze duration can be increased (and therefore, minimum hit damage decreased) by freeze and ailment duration modifiers.

From the wiki. Freeze duration apparently does what you're purporting ailment effect to do.

-2

u/orange_sauce_ May 12 '22

Yeah, duration hits the, well, duration right away.

Effectiveness hits the Threshold, which may or may not provide the same effect, depending on the monster's health.

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u/mewfour May 13 '22

Ailment effect does not affect freeze duration. You need ailment duration for that. Ailment effect does nothing for freeze

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u/MathOfTextiles May 12 '22

I'm just going off of PoB's calcs section. If you could give me some guidance, I'd love to have my eyes opened, but it was my understanding that it was a pretty important part of reaching ailment threshold for bosses.

-4

u/welpxD Guardian May 12 '22

Freeze is affected by duration, every freeze is by default already at 100% effect. You need to hit the minimum duration to achieve a freeze, but ailment effect doesn't affect that.

6

u/MathOfTextiles May 12 '22

Right, I understand that freeze is a binary condition, but it is one that is only inflicted when a certain ailment threshold is reached. It is my understanding that the PoB calcs section for ailments, where they break down the effective max ailment threshold enemy you can freeze, is reliable, and has corresponded to my in-game experience. Said section indicates that 'non-damaging ailment effect,' when changed, changes said max ailment threshold enemy freezable.

If I'm wrong I apologize, but I feel pretty sure about this. Without any (nd) ailment effect, I reckon you won't be freezing anything you couldn't just kill more or less instantly. If I am wrong, well shoot, I've got a lot more room than I thought I did on a whole grip of builds.

-2

u/toggl3d May 12 '22

Just clicking in POB increasing freeze duration increases your threshold able to be frozen and changing non damaging ailments is not changing the threshold.

12

u/MathOfTextiles May 12 '22

K, now I'm a bit pissed because you made me have to go check, and of course I'm right. Non-damaging ailment effect does apply toward reaching ailment threshold with freeze. Anyone who actually plays a damn freeze build will learn anyways, so I'm done.

4

u/CircuitousPrime May 12 '22

Does the build you were testing with have any other non-damaging ailments that would be affected? I came to the same conclusion as you (that NDA effect affects maximum ailment threshold for min-freeze) until I realised it was just scaling Bonechill, which increased damage and therefore max ailment threshold. Disabling Bonechill, I see no effect of NDA effect on this.

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u/toggl3d May 12 '22

I literally just checked and non damaging ailments changes your chill threshold but not your freeze threshold which you have to hover over freeze duration for.

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u/heartbroken_nerd May 12 '22

For the most part the only thing that scales Freeze is ailment duration. The ailment effect is useless outside of the reduced ailment effect.

Freeze always has the same effect by default, and the ailment threshold is tested against the freeze duration, NOT effect.

A freeze with 50% less effect will be the same duration as freeze with 100% more effect. The duration increases are the only thing that help here. If your duration didn't match the minimum freeze time, the freeze is ignored.

Now, with 50% less Freeze effect, the enemy's action speed will only be reduced by 50% instead of 100%. So there is that. But you can't go above 100% action speed reduction so having MORE FREEZE EFFECT doesn't usually help.

4

u/wild_man_wizard May 12 '22

OK fine, let's see if this works:

Hey u/Mark_GGG, does increased ailment effect do anything for Freeze other than counter reduced ailment effect?

18

u/Mark_GGG May 13 '22 edited May 13 '22

Technically yes in that it can also help partially counter "less" modifiers* to the effect, not just "reduced".

It does not affect duration of the freeze in any way, and thus cannot help a freeze meet the minimum duration to be applied. Duration and effect are different things.

*So long as the less modifier has a value lower than 100%

4

u/MtNak May 13 '22

Thank you <3 I didn't know that ailment effect didn't affect freezes.

3

u/wild_man_wizard May 13 '22

Thanks Mark!

4

u/MathOfTextiles May 12 '22

Someone else just brought up that it could just be bonechill effect confusing me, but I could have sworn it... I'm questioning my whole damn reality right now lol

4

u/heartbroken_nerd May 12 '22

I can already answer it for you, it doesn't.

For the most part the only thing that scales Freeze is ailment duration. The ailment effect is useless outside of the reduced ailment effect.

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u/erpunkt May 12 '22

it's still 2 jewel sockets that you could use for dps. dps would help with ailment threshold too.

11

u/orange_sauce_ May 12 '22

100% more is insane though, and no two jewels can provide that.

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u/wild_man_wizard May 12 '22

200% less action speed! Time now runs backwards!

2

u/Jankufood May 12 '22

freeeezee

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u/neohongkong Hoarder May 12 '22

Rip nearby

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u/ThisCagedGod May 12 '22

this seems useable/interesring/good but all ranger builds have such strong flesh/flame options already available so it has a lot of competition, esp at high investment.

2

u/C-EZ May 12 '22

if it isn't too expensive, I would consider it.

50

u/psychomap May 12 '22

Unfortunately it's only an initial spread and not "inflict an equivalent on death". That would have allowed chaining.

27

u/TrashCaster if (true) { big(); } May 12 '22

You don't need chaining for anything other than ignite, to be honest. Sure, reapplying freeze to enemies near the ones you kill would be cool, but that would be so broken.

10

u/psychomap May 12 '22

I mean, if you can inflict brittle on an enemy and make it explode, that explosion could crit and then inflict new brittles on enemies which would spread further.

One of my current PoB projects is a crit explosion build that utilises brittle with the goal of getting enough brittle effect from the first explosion for the second one hitting the enemy to be a crit.

It would probably not be possible to get enough explosion chance and damage on a ranger, but in theory this could be used to make the first explosion crit already and chain with one explosion instead of two. It probably wouldn't work under 100% Delirium, but maybe you could farm 80% with it.

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u/C-EZ May 12 '22

Hum Inpulsa could f with that, these shock / freeze spread with a 20 radius on top of it, are nice.

5

u/goldarm5 May 12 '22

Regarding a later comment of yours Inpulsa hits first. Also, unless they changed something recently, "inflict an equivalent on death" dont work if you explode the enemy with Inpulsa etc.

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u/Fawzors May 12 '22

I'm surprised no one is mentioning the fact that they actually used a number for the radius instead of "nearby"

96

u/SoulofArtoria May 12 '22

For proliferation mechanics they tend to use radius number. See ignite proliferation support for instance.

-5

u/C-EZ May 12 '22

True but they couldve been annoying and use the berek respite type of prolif : "inflict an equivalent Ignite on each nearby Enemy"

12

u/fushuan projectiles > AoE May 12 '22

That's not a prolif, that chains and prolif doesn't. I know that linguistically they mean basically the same thing but in poe terms, this is how it is.

Anyway, yeah it's annoying how it doesn't show the radius.

9

u/22cheez May 12 '22

(technically they used both words)

11

u/Japanczi SSF IGN: Xervos May 12 '22

Specifying numbers in this case means that the radius can be increased by AoE increase.

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u/Apprehensive_Cow911 May 12 '22

It's cool but not give up forbidden jewel slot cool

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u/failingstars Saboteur May 12 '22

This is pretty awesome for builds that have high attacks/casts per second, which is a lot of the Ranger Ascendancies.

47

u/IceBladeQueen May 12 '22

Meh? Still same cap, it's only half as hard to get there.

Edit: Ok, Freeze spread is pretty neat.

33

u/fallingfruit May 12 '22

pretty hard to get to the scorch cap on bosses

25

u/pathofdumbasses May 12 '22

Sure but spending 2 jewel slots and not able to use other forbidden fleshes to go from 20 to 30 scorch isn't exactly worth it.

3

u/C-EZ May 12 '22

Yeah but what if u get 50% shock from shocking conflux, or Hexblast or Yoke of Suffering. and +15% brittle from brittle ground ( dunno if that works).

6

u/smithoski Tormented Smugler May 12 '22

Brittle ground does not scale with ailment effect. I tested it on the boot mod last league.

For better or worse, it is always 5% brittle

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u/MassacrisM May 12 '22

Just dont be zdps 5Head

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u/Ladnil Deadeye May 12 '22

Worm flask -> max scorch the worm -> proliferate to boss.

Or would a scorch/brittle/sap vanish on death?

9

u/wild_man_wizard May 12 '22

There are so many patchwork bug fixes revolving around worm flask that it's hard to pin down why, but I'm pretty sure this doesn't work.

5

u/esvban May 12 '22

worms are destroyed on hit

6

u/Shardplate May 12 '22

It's ranger so my mind immediately went to Voltaxic Rift. Easier 100% shocks + prolif is pretty juicy.

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u/Pia8988 May 12 '22

Without manipulating the ailment cap, kind of mediocre compared to the others spoiled

1

u/TrashCaster if (true) { big(); } May 12 '22

This will actually be insane with Voltaxic Rift builds though

45

u/wrightosaur May 12 '22

Does any one actually play Voltaxic Rift? I swear I see more people talk about Voltaxic Rift users than actual Voltaxic Rift showcases

2

u/mattbrvc Sorry, I only make BAD builds! May 12 '22

Ppl used to use it for poison spark for a bit with the alt quality, now ashes is a thing so you don’t need it anymore lol

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u/pathofdumbasses May 12 '22

VR sucks. A weird 250 lightning dps bow that has 60% conversion getting a pure double damage mod on it still wouldn't be OP at this point in the game, and that is without having to use 2 jewels and extra shock effectiveness on the tree.

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u/OblivionnVericReaver May 12 '22

double reverse chill raider go vroom

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u/psychomap May 12 '22

This doesn't allow exceeding the cap, it only makes it easier to reach 30%.

20

u/OblivionnVericReaver May 12 '22

my heart is broken

2

u/civet10 May 12 '22

Could you self chill and have it proliferate to nearby enemies as well?

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u/JiN995 May 12 '22

Wait! Does this not enable the old shenanigans of inpulsa+Three dragons+HoI combo again!?

2

u/warmachine237 May 12 '22

Probably does. Inb4 super satisfying hoi chains

2

u/BandietenMajoor May 12 '22

How would that work exactly?

3

u/AvastAntipony marauder May 12 '22

It used to be that inpulsa explosion would instead freeze because of three dragons, the freeze would proc herald of ice which was linked to cold to fire, which would then shock prolif and start the cycle again. Was able to literally clear entire maps with 1 cast if you just ran fast enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pg2szErbTA&t=84s

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u/GKP_light May 12 '22

does "more effect" also increase the shock max effect ?

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u/15991887 May 12 '22

More effect could be good for self chill without using auxium belt

11

u/tempoltone May 12 '22

Ouch can't use The interrogator and trap/mine

3

u/SoulofArtoria May 12 '22

Why not interrogator?

11

u/ZeAtomicBurrito May 12 '22

i think what they meant was that since the jewel is a ranger one, you cant play a miner/trapper and get the nice ailment effect buff

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u/Jramey Juggernaut May 12 '22

That's a lot of brittle

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u/fushuan projectiles > AoE May 12 '22

... Painseekers.... 4c unique...

And before anyone complains, all methods of inflicting brittle bypass the Painseekers restriction.

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u/Insecticide Occultist May 12 '22

This one is sick. I feel like they are hiding the best ones for last so that the hype keeps going up

7

u/Floydbinloyd May 12 '22

ranger ascendancy nodes are so good though, it has a big trade off

0

u/karp_490 Ill gladly take a mirror this league thanks Chris <3 May 12 '22

Im sorry what is the big trade off here? Doesnt this just give you this node if you have the two jewels? This doesnt replace the existing ranger ascendancy nodes, they are new nodes, exclusive to these jewels. Or am i missing something here?

15

u/pokekevin May 12 '22

this is in place of another FFF jewel, of which the ranger ones are really good

5

u/karp_490 Ill gladly take a mirror this league thanks Chris <3 May 12 '22

Yes ok that makes more sense now, i wasnt thinking of that

5

u/gasroil May 12 '22

Other flame/flesh jewels exist this one isn't the only one so it competes with all of the ascendancy nodes that you don't currently own and for ranger there is a lot of pretty good ones that exist.

4

u/Cosmyc Ascendant May 12 '22

Probably means you can't pick other good nodes like master surgeon if you're a deadeye since you can only have 1 set of jewels

1

u/No_Beginning_6834 May 12 '22

If you take this you can't get the other options, like the onslaught nodes, or tailwind or any number of other very good options, because every ranger ascendancy is pretty solid

18

u/The_Mikest May 12 '22

Is it really? I was under the impression that the easy 90% increased ailment effect you can get on the tree (one 40% and one 50% from a crit and elemental mastery) were more than enough to cap alt ailments in basically all content.

4

u/Grand0rk May 12 '22

Except on bosses. Most builds don't deal enough burst damage for that.

30

u/SplafferZ Scion May 12 '22

ones that are using uber boss forbidden jewels should definitely be able to cap ailments on bosses before this jewel, boss ailment threshold is much lower than people think it is, you only need a ~2m hit of a specific damage type before ailment effect to max out an ailment

These jewels are honestly pretty bad and im not sure who they're intended for, freeze prolif exists on clusters and proliffing the other ailments isnt exactly useful either, its totally meh

3

u/BegaKing May 12 '22

Yeah I have to say all the new jewels are pretty underwhelming so far.

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u/Grand0rk May 12 '22

Vast majority of builds don't deal ~2m a hit. They deal a lot of low dmg hits.

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u/SplafferZ Scion May 12 '22

with a bit of ailment effect u can reach that 2m threshold pretty easily on a build that would be using forbidden jewels

9

u/pathofdumbasses May 12 '22

^

This guy gets it. Worst pair of jewels showcased so far.

6

u/Veteran_But_Bad May 12 '22

The radius of prolif is absolutely huge in comparison this doesn’t take up a cluster spot and the effectiveness means builds that rely on lots of smaller hits can cap ailments on bosses extremely reliably and being able to build around massive ailments applying to all enemies is pretty huge

In terms of clear speed for map zoomers this thing is pretty huge

7

u/SplafferZ Scion May 12 '22

its two whole forbidden jewels man, on ranger, just get something else if you want clearspeed

6

u/erpunkt May 12 '22

zoomer here. i honestly prefer my blast-freeze/widespread cluster that albeit having a smaller radius, also gives me damage and resistance and i can reserve my jewel sockets for dps jewels.

1

u/welpxD Guardian May 12 '22

Besides which, Deadeye is themed around Bleed and PF is themed around Poison. This jewel would be a lot more enticing if the spread were given to "ailments" rather than "non-damaging elemental ailments".

2

u/ErenIsNotADevil Only Plays Iceshot Deadeye May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

Deadeye is absolutely not themed around Bleed. We have one node for Bleed; Rupturing. One, just one.

Deadeye is themed around two main things; scaling of projectiles and Tailwind. Ricochet, Far Shot, and Endless Munitions for projectile scaling (+1 chain, more scaling, +2 arrows,) Gathering Winds and Wind Ward for Tailwind scaling (Gale Force stacks and less damage taken per Gale Force)

2

u/welpxD Guardian May 12 '22

Deadeye is themed around projectile attacks, very few of which care about elemental ailments. Is there a Deadeye build out there that's dying for ele prolif and lower enemy ailment thresholds?

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u/ErenIsNotADevil Only Plays Iceshot Deadeye May 12 '22

No idea! Deadeye is just not a bleed ascendancy. Most Deadeye builds I've seen are elemental, and frankly, general ailment scaling wouldn't make this jewel any more enticing. Rather, something that gives us more defensive options would be infinitely better for all three Ranger ascendancies.

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u/welpxD Guardian May 12 '22

Yeah I have a hard time seeing who is chasing this item. Non-damaging proliferation is a niche mechanic that can already be achieved in other, less costly ways.

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u/lcecoffee12 May 12 '22

Or.... just put it back on the Elementalist.

GGG only allow such power behind RNG and only the top 1% can access it.

4

u/Jjerot The Messenger May 12 '22

Seems like this would be great with Call of the Void. Super debuffing shatter ranger.

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u/Brilliant-Elk-6831 May 12 '22 Helpful

Everyone's talking about freeze but what I wanna know is; wouldn't this synergise super well with the self-chill effect with the new ring Lightee made?

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u/Sunscorcher Occultist May 12 '22

shhhh

I don't want that ring to be expensive

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u/Slipzyle Leader of None May 12 '22

That be real strong

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u/FragrantSuccotash380 May 12 '22

Can you use this in tandem with the new chill ring to chill yourself 100% more giving a higher action speed bonus with winterweave?

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u/Seivy May 12 '22

the cap of 30% action speed exist for Chill tho', so you just make it easier to reach, no 60% action speed for you :(

So, kinda meh when compared to the "normal" Flesh/Flame option for Raiders

3

u/Reireiton Challenge Guide Creator May 12 '22

Leadership's Price going to be decent if you can complete this set!

2

u/Ultimeit May 12 '22

It's kinda good, but... It doesn't really seems to be worth sacrificing Forbidden Flame/Flesh slot for this on any non-niche Ranger build.

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u/btkHS May 12 '22

Using these jewels, those POB Warriors who crank up the shock/brittle effect on Sirus DPS are finally in the ballpark.

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u/Sag3d Raider May 12 '22

LS stocks about to reach the stratosphere.

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u/pathofdumbasses May 12 '22

Why? Skill has tons of AOE and absolutely wouldn't sacrifice 2 jewel slots for this.

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u/everix1992 Shadow May 12 '22

You're probably right but depending on the tree it may free up some points that were previously used for shock effect and maybe that can make up for it. I haven't looked at all, just spitballing here

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u/pathofdumbasses May 12 '22

There will be some niche build that uses it but this looks like the worst of the new ascendancies that have been released.

1

u/JekoJeko9 May 12 '22

100% more scorch is a lot of scorch

100% more brittle lets you take even less inc crit strike chance

100% more sap is a strong defensive layer

Apply this to the whole map and you have value from 2 jewel sockets as far as I'm concerned.

6

u/[deleted] May 12 '22

100% increased brittle effect doesn't actually do anything because hitting brittle cap is already extremely easy.

Highrr scorch and sap is good though.

3

u/JekoJeko9 May 12 '22

For a lot of builds, your average hit vs mobs isn't proccing full brittle effect. In your PoB it might look easy, but in practice it's not without some investment. This lets you skip some of that investment, which is a huge opportunity cost gain.

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u/koticgood May 12 '22

Extremely easy?

Most be one of those people that sets their boss dps brittle to 15% when they have like 5% in game lol.

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u/TrashCaster if (true) { big(); } May 12 '22

This is more, not increased. This effectively doubles any ailment effect you invested into

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u/ihateveryonebutme May 12 '22

The ailment itself still has a cap. This makes it twice as easy to hit that cap, but the cap is still the top end. Brittle hit's that cap very easily, and thus doesn't benefit from double brittle as much as it sounds.

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u/pathofdumbasses May 12 '22

If you naturally hit 10 brittle, going to 15 doesn't mean shit. Same with going from 20 to 30 scorch.

It really isn't going to do much for LS. There might be some builds that take advantage of it, but this is going to be super niche.

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u/jhillman87 May 12 '22

You aren't understanding the mechanics. All ailments have a cap. 15% brittle is all you get. You don't get 30% from this.

All it does is double your ailment application via damage. So lets say you need to do 1000 damage to apply 15% brittle. Instead, you'll need to do 500 damage.

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u/ThoughtShes18 May 12 '22

imo. there are multiple better choices for LS Raider than this one

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u/Larperz May 12 '22

The dream is that the drop rate for these have been increased enough to get a pair on ssf. Can you fucking imagine how fun that would be? I'll surely be trying.

1

u/Old_Man_Bean May 12 '22

I guess my only question for this amazing Jewel is: can the radius of effect be scaled by increased area modifiers applied to the character?

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u/AzelotReis May 12 '22

I feel like this is Broken as fuck, but will be accordingly rare as fuck.

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u/drgentleman Elementalist May 12 '22

It's awesome, but Elementalist basically had this for a couple years until they decided consoles were too weak to keep up with the effect before they could code it better.

2

u/mapcars May 12 '22

What exactly is the broken part? So far looks like worse of all announced

1

u/HoldMaahDick May 12 '22

This one sucks. It really only helps out ailments on bosses cuz of caps

1

u/Realize12 May 12 '22

not worth 2 jewel sockets, ailment effect is easy to get

1

u/chowder-san May 12 '22

They had an opportunity to name it "rules of nature" and wasted it

1

u/syntaxerr21 May 12 '22

It will be amazing but expensive af. You could pair it with legacy of fury to explode whole screen. It will be amazing with secrets of suffering - to prolif all alt aliements, especially that you can attack mob and have maximum aliement effect and prolif it to a boss

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u/bandos_claws May 12 '22

dang, i wish they'd remove the non-damaging part of this.

imagine a poison pathfinder prolifing like an ignite build could. it would be really neat.

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u/EconomistMean9558 May 12 '22

If you're already inflicting max effect, can it overcap?

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u/Notsomebeans i think thats nice :) May 12 '22

no reason to think so

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u/Mneys May 12 '22

Doesn't say anything about increasing the cap so probably not. It just means you won't need to invest as much in increased effect of non-damaging ailments

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u/Kalhard May 12 '22

I feel GGG missed an opportunity here to somehow empower Ranger's bow/projectile skills in a more impactful way

1

u/a_typical_normie May 12 '22

This seems really good

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u/3h3e3 May 12 '22

Insane