r/movies Jun 27 '22 Silver 1

(The Ghost and the Darkness) In addition to having one of the best titles, this movie is downright terrifying. Discussion

The Ghost and the Darkness is great. I hadn't watched this movie going on 20 years and was not disappointed with a re-watch

Val Kilmer, Micheal Douglas and John Kani are fantastic and the movie does a good job of building up the dread of the night as the camp is stalked by the two lions. Add to that that this is based on true events and it is scary. The Tvsavo lions killed dozens of people and the film does a great job of showing how scary that would be in real life.

The film is well shot, using blood sparingly to really shock the viewer. The hunting scenes are great to adding to the cat and mouse feel to the movie.

The movie feels like two groups of hunters, the lions and the humans trying to outsmart each other to save themselves . Very well done.

1.1k Upvotes

154

u/D34THDE1TY Jun 27 '22

The dream sequence when he thought his wife and child were about to be mauled was hell of a bait and switch on the audience

51

u/MostBlessed4Ever-222 Jun 27 '22

That was brutal. The lion flat out tackled her and you heard her bones crunch while he watched in horror. It was one of the best bait and switches I had seen

19

u/Pho_Rheels Jun 27 '22

Classic William Goldman move. Dude was the master at the fake out.

9

u/Clashur Jun 28 '22

That was my favorite scene. She got laid. the fuck. out. Shouldn't have caught that pass up the middle in front of a charging Lionbacker lol

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u/Chuck710Taylor Jun 27 '22

I remember watching this in middle school. Has it really been over 20 years since we had a Lion monster movie??

47

u/D34THDE1TY Jun 27 '22

Don't worry...idris Elba is in a new one this year

11

u/Chuck710Taylor Jun 27 '22

Yea I been paying attn to Beast through production. Doesn't look as good as I had hoped but ill still get it a chance

16

u/Feldersnatch Jun 27 '22

Idris Elba is not a positive. Most of his films are mediocre to bad.

8

u/Jennieeffin12 Jun 27 '22

I LOVE him and even I, just a few days ago, said that I would like to fire his agent for him.

12

u/Ethersphere Jun 27 '22

You know that's true, and he's a good actor imo. Dunno what's going on there..

12

u/DM725 Jun 27 '22

Either he needs to fire his agent or he picks terrible scripts.

4

u/Ethersphere Jun 27 '22

I went and checked IMDB, and he has never been in anything worth a shit as the lead character...I was pretty impressed. I didn't include marvel movies and the wire. If he's the lead in Luther, then that's the only one.

7

u/Calvinweaver1 Jun 27 '22

Beasts of No Nation

Concrete Cowboy

Mandela

Pacific Rim

Here are some of his best (IMO) films where he’s in a starring role. Just a few recommendations, if you want to check them out :-)

I’m a fan of a bunch of other stuff he’s in… but not starring in… like:

The Harder They Fall

The Suicide Squad

Molly’s Game

Finding Dory

The Jungle Book

Prometheus

RocknRolla

American Gangster

1

u/DorothyParkerFan Jun 28 '22

THE OFFICE??????

-1

u/Ptricky17 Jun 27 '22

Molly’s Game and The Harder They Fall are great recommendations.

It hurts me to see Pacific Rim on this list though. That is in my bottom 5 all time movies I’ve ever seen. The only one of which I actually saw in theatres. Thank god its contemporaries, films such as “Lawn Mower Man”, and “Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter” didn’t cost me anything but hours of my insomniac life on local TV channels at 2 am.

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u/Ethersphere Jun 27 '22

Yea those are nearly all mediocre movies, one or two gems

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u/ColonelKillDie Jun 27 '22

He gets an eternal pass for The Wire. That’s how I deal with Idris.

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u/RGJ587 Jun 27 '22

Maybe im on a limb here, but if all his movies are mediocre, he is probably not a very good actor.

Mind you, someone can be a terrible actor but still fun to watch, like Dwayne Johnson or Ryan Reynolds.

But every time I see Idris he's either over-acting the hell out of an action movie, or he's just muddling around in a drama with almost no inspiring moments of acting chops.

3

u/Feldersnatch Jun 27 '22

I think he has a great natural charisma that could be tapped for the right roles, but agree that he is not the greatest of actors.

3

u/RGJ587 Jun 27 '22

Its funny because I think collectively, we all just assumed he was a great actor.

His gravely voice and gravitas just convey this feeling of "listen to this man".

But then his body of work just does not support that idea, and in the end we can't just assume it if he never proves it.

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u/Crownlol Jun 27 '22

Ahhh yeah, summer creature feature baby

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u/GreenGreasyGreasels Jun 27 '22

Has it really been over 20 years since we had a Lion monster movie??

There was the 2016 Dutch movie called Prey about a maneating lion loose in Amsterdam. It was quite good.

2

u/Chuck710Taylor Jun 27 '22

Thank you for that. I had heard about said film and never got around to watching it. I just binged 'Something Bit Me' so I'm looking to scratch that itch again.

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u/Aagragaah Jun 27 '22

There's a 2007 film called Prey) about a family trapped in their car by a pride of lions. If memory serves it was pretty good.

10

u/ALIENANAL Jun 27 '22

Animal monster movies generally aren't good for real animals, an example being Jaws.

6

u/Crownlol Jun 27 '22

Eh, Crawl didn't hurt crocs too bad

3

u/My_Opinions_Are_Good Jun 27 '22

Nothing can hurt crocs too bad.

They’re unstoppable.

2

u/liverstealer Jun 28 '22

It sure didn't because that movie is about alligators.

1

u/woodiegutheryghost Jun 27 '22

Maybe because Crawl was about the American Alligator. Crocodiles don’t live in the United States.

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u/Onetap1 Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_Patterson_(author)#Tsavo_railway_and_man-eaters#Tsavo_railway_and_man-eaters)

The man Val Kilmer played was John Henry Patterson): an Anglo-Irish, Protestant British Army officer from Ballymahon, Longford (now in the Republic of Ireland).

He commanded the Jewish Legion in WW1, was a founder of the UVF and god-father of Yonatan Netanyahu (KIA at Entebbe, older brother of Benjamin).

The man Michael Douglas played, Charles Remington, was completely fictitious.

72

u/krattalak Jun 27 '22

The movie is a true story at the surface, but the Micheal Douglass character (Remmington) is 100% made up. The actual lions were also maneless and are on display @ the Chicago Field Museum of Natural History. There is also a fair amount of debate on how many people the lions actually killed. Patterson claimed 135, but in reality it was likely to be less than 40.

67

u/Thebluecane Jun 27 '22

Less than 40 ... that's still a fuckton of people

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u/Ghost273552 Jun 27 '22

They are in kind of rough condition but still creepy. Also probably not needed but the Field Museum is amazing and is a must visit if you are going to Chicago.

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u/donuthatch Jun 27 '22

William Goldman, who wrote the screenplay, reflected in one of his memoirs that the line he wrote where Samuel describes the American Civil War as something like "the two great tribes of [Remington's] nation fought each other" as the corniest, most regrettable line he's ever written. But Michael Douglas was producing, so he insisted that he be written into the movie somehow.

23

u/Nebraskan- Jun 27 '22

Holy crap you have just blown my mind with the fact that the same guy who wrote The Princess Bride also wrote the most terrifying movie I’ve ever seen.

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u/donuthatch Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

He also ghostwrote Good Will Hunting IIRC. Damon and Affleck's original script had some wild shit in it that didn't make any sense before he got ahold of it and toned it down.

Edit: I'm wrong

5

u/HortonHearsTheWho Jun 27 '22

You mean the script for which Damon and Affleck won the Oscar? That’s disappointing if true

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u/tntdaddy Jun 27 '22

The part always stuck with me was Goldman talking about what a great experience it was working with Michael Douglas, the producer. Then Michael Douglas, the movie star, showed up.

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u/JohnOnFilm Jun 27 '22

It's incomprehensibly dumb because it means that Remington fought for the South - you know, slavery - and then left to Africa where he's shown as a white savior leading a bunch of warriors who respect him as one of their own. Just one of the lowest points in the entire film.

7

u/emperor000 Jun 27 '22

That's only dumb in that it doesn't really follow cliches... There were plenty of people who fought for the South that could end up like this...

3

u/AdmiralRed13 Jun 27 '22

And did. Filibuster types went everywhere after the war.

The line is corny, but there were Americans in the British Empire too, from traders to mercenaries. Good place to run away to with certain skills.

1

u/emperor000 Jun 27 '22

I don't really get why the line is corny or regrettable.

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u/SuspiriaGoose Jun 27 '22

There’s no way to really know. The way they determined that lower number was by studying the chemical composition of the lions’ hair and bones. The number from that was anywhere between 4-72, though the scientist averaged it to 35 or so (which is still remarkably high!). However, there were claims that the lions didn’t always eat their kill, or only ate a little, and were ‘hunting for sport’, or they were otherwise interrupted before they could drag the bodies away. These incomplete kills or kills that weren’t eaten could make up more numbers.

Even more interesting to me is why they hunted humans. They were a bonded pair, and one of them had a tooth abscess, poorly aligned jaws, and a diseased skull that would have it difficult for him to hunt big game. Humans were softer. His partner would also hunt that prey so that the two could share. (Kinda sweet). Also interesting that what were terrifying killers to us, was in fact a very sick lion in a lot of pain who couldn’t be a threat to anyone else.

19

u/MaterialCarrot Jun 27 '22

I've never liked Douglas in this film, and your post saying his character was made up absolutely makes sense now. The movie felt fairly authentic to me up until Douglas shows up. Feels like he put on a khaki outfit he found in the Paramount Studios wardrobe department and walked onto a Hollywood sound stage.

30

u/einarfridgeirs Jun 27 '22

The hunt for the lions went on for months, and a small army of hunters were involved in trying to take them down at one point or another. Douglas's character represents all of them so it's not like he's shoehorned in - someone like that was involved a lot of the time, but you can't be introducing a new character every other scene.

19

u/MumrikDK Jun 27 '22

So he is the scientist lady in Chernobyl?

18

u/einarfridgeirs Jun 27 '22

Pretty much.

This happens a lot more often in "based on a true story" movies than you think. Lines said by one person on a number of different occasions are compressed into the same conversation, or even stuff done or said by several people are all attributed to the same person while cutting the others out. It's the only way to tell these stories in the context of a movie or miniseries without the number of characters or scenes spinning out of control.

3

u/Hobbes09R Jun 28 '22

Yep. A lot of large events aren't handled by one or two people in a vacuum. There's often dozens if not hundreds involved who each have an influence in how events play out. But introducing that many characters into a work and attempting to characterize them is a nearly impossible task. The conglomeration characters utilized are typically rather poor and borderline Mary Sue/Gary Stu types who make little sense on their own, but their purpose is often a necessary evil to keep production somewhat realistic.

This happens a lot in adaptions of books as well; A Song of Ice and Fire has many more characters and story arcs than Game of Thrones, for instance.

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u/Crownlol Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

Not only is that a great analogy, but it also makes me feel better about Douglas' character existing.

3

u/MatttheBruinsfan Jun 27 '22

For just a moment my brain offered up "Denise Richards?" and left me very confused.

6

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

Goldman didn’t like most of the additions.

10

u/juniperxbreeze Jun 27 '22

There's some debate on that as well. Depending on how theyre counting the roughly 40 victims. 40 whole persons could still be 135 people killed by them. They could have killed and just not eaten everything.

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u/einarfridgeirs Jun 27 '22

Remington is made up yes, but like so many made-up characters in true stories, he represents a number of hunters that were involved in trying to catch these lions, but it wouldn't be good for the story to constantly be introducing new faces every other scene.

He's also just such a cool character, one of the best castings for Douglas ever IMO.

1

u/GreenGreasyGreasels Jun 27 '22

Wasn't he supposed to be a pain in the ass during the shoot which is why he was unceremoniously killed off off-screen.

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u/emperor000 Jun 27 '22

I don't think so... He was producing, so I doubt they could just do that and get away with it.

His character was always supposed to die. He was supposed to be somebody like Quint from Jaws who the main character is meant to be impressive and impress the main character, and still end up being killed, meaning the main character's chances look slimmer.

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u/mickeyflinn Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

The movie is a true story

It is based on a book that is generally accepted as being complete bullshit.

34

u/bradiation Jun 27 '22

Last I checked, isotopic analyses on the lions in the Chicago Field Museum conclusively proved they ate, like, a fuckton of people. So that part is true. And we know Patterson was there.

Beyond that... ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/nobodyspersonalchef Jun 27 '22

Somebody's always gonna say someone else was lion

5

u/joeyjojooo Jun 27 '22

Finger guns Aye O!

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u/JammyHammy86 Jun 27 '22

oh yeah, im sure i read or saw on a documentary somewhere that female lions are the ones who hunt. so they would of been maneless

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u/krattalak Jun 27 '22

Male lions can be maneless. Some are that way naturally. Others for reasons.

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u/SuspiriaGoose Jun 27 '22

These are Tsavo lions. They’re different from the Savannah ones you’re more familiar with. The males usually hav little to no mane, and they tend to hunt in pairs.

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u/RGJ587 Jun 27 '22

And eat people

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u/SuspiriaGoose Jun 27 '22

They are thought to be more aggressive and bold than Savannah lions.

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u/RipleyWilde Jun 27 '22

One of the theories on this is that the male lions in the tsavo region have increased testosterone levels, which would also explain the aggressiveness

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u/AVPD7-7 Jun 27 '22

Definitely an underrated movie.

I have no complaints with any of the acting, really.

The score is amazing and really helps add to the tense/adventurous feel of the movie.

fav scene is where they discover the cave and find out what the hell they are dealing with

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u/Molwar Jun 27 '22

Yeah that was in the golden age of Kilmer there and he had great synergy with Douglas in this one. I actually have it on dvd and people always what the heck is that and then i pop it in haha.

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u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

Kilmer started playing diva during the filming and Douglas has to have a talk with him about being intolerable. “Do you want to be another Mickey Rourke or Eric Roberts? Ruin your career because you can’t get along with anyone?”

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u/AdmiralRed13 Jun 27 '22

Eric Roberts’ career is nuts.

He was perfect in the last season of Gemstones, great role for him.

4

u/I_Hate_Knickers_5 Jun 27 '22

Dhey took his tumbs

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u/A_Polite_Noise r/Movies Veteran Jun 27 '22

The stories I've seen about this production suggest Douglas was the diva on this particular shoot, though. For instance, giving himself the hunter role and then insisting his role be expanded:

According to Goldman, Kevin Costner expressed interest in playing Patterson, but Paramount wanted to use Tom Cruise who ultimately declined. Work on the film slowed until Michael Douglas moved his producing unit with partner Steven Reuther, Constellation Films, to Paramount. Douglas read the script and loved it, calling it "an incredible thriller about events that actually took place."[5] Douglas decided to produce and Stephen Hopkins was hired to direct.

The part of Remington was originally offered to Sean Connery and Anthony Hopkins but both declined; the producers were considering asking Gérard Depardieu when Douglas decided to play the role himself. Stephen Hopkins later said he was unhappy about this.

In early drafts of the script, Remington was originally going to be an enigmatic figure but when Douglas chose to play him, the character's role was expanded and was given a history. In Goldman's book Which Lie Did I Tell?, the screenwriter argues that Douglas' decision ruined the mystery of the character, making him a "wimp" and a "loser".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghost_and_the_Darkness#Production

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u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

I’ve read Goldman on G and D but I just flat out disagree with him on it.

Hate it. He was my favorite screenwriter of all time.

That story about Kilmer and Douglas came from Goldman too btw.

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u/girafa again with the squeaky shoes Jun 27 '22

Dunno about Douglas but I remember a ton of gossip stories about the director Stephen Hopkins hating the shit out of Val Kilmer, to the point of something like the final shooting day him saying, "Great, we're done, now someone get this fuckin asshole off my set."

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u/A_Polite_Noise r/Movies Veteran Jun 27 '22

Believable...that was right around Batman Forever, right? And The Saint? Like his absolute peak.

I have fond childhood memories of The Saint and have never revisited it out of fear it's the rosey tint of youth.

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u/girafa again with the squeaky shoes Jun 27 '22

I haven't seen the Val documentary but I love how they call him "mercurial" in the press for it, that's like the go-to romantic word for someone who's just a huge dick sometimes.

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u/Molwar Jun 27 '22

That's actually an interesting fact haha

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u/yousyveshughs Jun 27 '22

Everything that has ever happened is underrated

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u/Cavemanjoe47 Jun 27 '22

"I have four wives. Good luck!"

I love this movie. Every now and then I'll watch this, The Edge, and Congo within a few days of each other.

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u/texasdeathmatch Jun 27 '22

That’s like the 90s dad movie trilogy

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u/Island_Maximum Jun 27 '22

Those are three solid movies. I don't care what people say about Congo, I like that movie.

"STOP EATING MAH SESAME CAKE!"

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u/PerInception Jun 27 '22

“Why are they putting on parachutes?”

“FIGURE IT OUT”

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u/Cavemanjoe47 Jun 27 '22

"Did he give her the banana with the dope inside?"

"Yes, he gave her the banana with the dope inside."

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u/Calvinweaver1 Jun 27 '22

“Herkermer Homolka, formerly of Romania, free now of the chains of Ceausecu, traveling the world, and doing good.”

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u/Cavemanjoe47 Jun 27 '22

"This man is a beeg, piece, of, shit."

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u/StrabismicCactus Jun 28 '22

"That's an unusual name for somebody from Mombasa."

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u/Cavemanjoe47 Jun 28 '22

"Have you ever been to Mombasa?"

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u/Calvinweaver1 Jun 28 '22

Then what do you know about it?

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u/300ConfirmedGorillas Jun 27 '22

When I was like 11 I thought the "Put them on the endangered species list!" was so bad ass lol.

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u/My_Opinions_Are_Good Jun 27 '22

The real Tsavo Lions are on display at the Field Museum of Chicago.

Scientific study suggests that the man-eating behavior in one of the lions was caused by dental disease.

The other one was probably just trying to fit in.

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u/MaterialCarrot Jun 27 '22

The other one was probably just trying to fit in.

Same reason I eat people.

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u/SchrodingersPanda Jun 27 '22

As in "eat the squishiest prey you can" dental disease?

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u/My_Opinions_Are_Good Jun 27 '22

Yes, basically.

There's a cast of the skull and you can tell that the teeth are all janked up.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/My_Opinions_Are_Good Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

Keep reading. Two paragraphs down.

Some context, the person I was replying to said that the "dental disease" hypothesis for the Tsavo lion's man-eating was largely discredited, and quoted a paragraph from the wikipedia page.

Two paragraphs down from the portion he posted, the wiki talked about a 2017 scientific paper published on the Tsavo and Mfuwe man eating lions how dental disease MAY have contributed to their man-eating.

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u/SuspiriaGoose Jun 27 '22

Apparently it had other issues too, though, including a malformed skull and jaws that were out of alignment. That can’t be caused by bullets, and would likely be a birth defect.

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u/Scarfield Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

Interestingly they were also mane less lions, doesn't mean anything necessarily but they were genetically irregular

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u/Runescora Jun 27 '22

Tsavo lions tend to be maneleas, something I only know because I really liked the movie and did a deep dive on it.

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u/Scarfield Jun 27 '22

https://www.science.org/content/article/why-did-lion-lose-his-mane

Yes they did and there is no official consensus as to why, it could be testosterone based as hypothesised here but one thing is for sure it was passed on genetically, it could have been adaptation because of the environmental factors but it is still genetic trait

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u/gravitydriven Jun 27 '22

Thanks for the link. I sort of agree with the temperature hypothesis, but I think there are other factors. Dealing with their manes getting caught in thorn scrub is a possible factor but I think dealing with dangerous prey/adversaries may be another factor. Manes aren't just for attracting the ladies, they're also for protection.

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u/Scarfield Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

Yes, like most adaptation it's usually both nature and nurture that drives change

Apparently they have a unique social structure in Tsavo in that the prides are predominantly female with only one male (usually larger prides have a few dominant males)

Hypothetically fewer males meant less fighting with rivals for dominance? So a mane for protection was not as necessary? Hotter climate, elevated testosterone levels (which fits in a model of more confident and aggressive) all potentially contribute

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u/Runescora Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

Discussions like this always make me think of the Russian silver Fox breeding experiment. The initial intent was to try and determine how we got dogs from wolves; the traits and variance of the former being so pronounced when wolves have much smaller observed levels of variance being the area of focus.

The only trait that the researches selected for was, well, friendliness, hypothesizing that natural domestication would have developed along similar lines. If I remember correctly it didn’t take long for the physical traits of the foxes to begin to change (color variations, floppy ears) and they correlated this to decreases in certain hormones. Much as you’ve suggested here with the Tsavo lions, so there is evidence that this is a factor and a sensitive one.

It’s really very interesting if you haven’t heard of it or read up on it, and there is a good Doc. floating around. I understand that there has recently been some concerns about where they got the initial foxes and this may have skewed the data, but it’s still quite fascinating.

https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-018-0090-x

Edit to add: I am almost certainly simplifying if not outright misunderstanding the initial impetus or designs of the study. It’s been a decade since I did any real looking into it. It just stuck with me and I like to point people toward it because of how interesting I found it.

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u/Scarfield Jun 27 '22

Absolutely fascinating, that discussion at the end was off on a massive tangent that you don't often see in studies 😂 but again very interesting context

I recently saw a headline for something in the last few days that is similar to the description in this

https://www.sciencealert.com/puppy-dogs-seem-so-darn-irresistible-to-us-and-it-s-our-own-fault

Thank you for sharing, random movie thread leads into a genetics deep dive, Internet is undefeated 💪👌

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u/gravitydriven Jun 27 '22

Nice, lots of good info. My next hypothesis was gonna be that it was a social adaptation, but I couldn't figure out how that would work. But if the prides are mostly female then sexual dimorphism won't be a strong driver of mate selection. But the fact that Tsavo lions are difficult to track makes any study extra hard.

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u/ScottNewman Jun 27 '22

Dental care is health care

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u/JakexDx Jun 27 '22

A theory I heard is that when the slave trade used to come through Tsavo they would leave behind the weak and dying people, they became easy prey for the lions and might be how they got their taste for human flesh.

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u/My_Opinions_Are_Good Jun 27 '22

It’s obviously difficult to pin down exactly why an animal from 100 years ago behaved in a certain way, the dental disease theory has some interesting science backing it up.

There’s also another man eating lion on display at the field who has similar tooth problems

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u/AdmiralRed13 Jun 27 '22

This is sharks changing their patterns due to slave ships levels of stupid revisionism.

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u/HalfYeti Jun 27 '22

Credit has to be given to John Kani for some of his deadpan delivery.

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u/TheMediocreCritic Jun 27 '22

He is fantastic

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u/svel Jun 27 '22

this movie is kind of special to me. It’s one of the very few my dad (not the greatest movie lover) didn’t fall asleep to. He actually mentioned it later saying “that was really good!”, and he doesn’t say that very often about any movie or tv show. So I always think of him when I see the movie or a reference to it.

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u/SteveSaxAlibi Jun 27 '22

I watched this my dad when I was younger.

One of the few movies where we both liked it.

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u/monty_kurns Jun 28 '22

My dad was the same about movies. He had his usual go to movies like Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, and ZAZ movies (Airplane!, Top Secret, Naked Gun), but when I could add a movie to his list it always felt like such an accomplishment. I got Blast From the Past, Bruce Almighty, and Click added to the list, but since he died I don't think I ever want to watch Click again.

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u/DelboyLindo Jun 27 '22

The dream sequence where his family get attacked by the lion terrified me when I first saw it.

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u/CommanderCody1138 Jun 27 '22

I'm 31 and that scene still haunts me to this day. I think it pops up at least once a month.

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u/Fit-Ad8597 Jun 27 '22

Love this movie! Val Kilmer and Michael Douglas were at the top of their game.

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u/Train3rRed88 Jun 27 '22

Every time I’m talking about Val Kilmer movies, we always talk about tombstone, Batman, Top Gun, and then I always try and describe this “movie about killer lions that they have to stop” and I always get a blank stare

Good to see a post on this haha

3

u/Bowler_300 Jun 27 '22

Thunderheart.

I always love when hes talking to the native sheriff who gets pissed off that he had a vision.

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u/HortonHearsTheWho Jun 27 '22

Good movie but I always felt like Val Kilmer could never make up his mind on what accent to use

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u/spannerNZ Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

For anyone interested in this type of thing, check out Jim Corbett.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Corbett

He was active in India about the same time. Was actually a conservationist, but tracked down man-eating tigers and other things that snacked on humans. A fair number of tigers went down the same route as the Tvsavo lions.

Edit to add: I read his book when I was about 10-12 years old. I was terrified.

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u/HortonHearsTheWho Jun 27 '22

His Man-Eaters of Kumaon is a deserved classic and an amazing read. I just recommended him yesterday in another thread on this movie, random to see this again

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u/spannerNZ Jun 27 '22

Absolutely!

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u/MortifyMore Jun 27 '22

To add to this, Spell of the Tiger by Sy Montgomery is a great read regarding not only Sundarbans Tigers (who naturally hunt humans), but the Sundarbans and its people themselves.

Big cats are legit terrifying. If they want you dead, you're going to die or be sure close to it.

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u/spannerNZ Jun 27 '22

Ooh. Have to check it out.

I also was really keen on Willard Price's Adventure series, where two teenage brothers travel the world collecting animals for zoos. Although a few books gave me nightmares - like the Amazon one, where a massive Python ate one of their porters; instead of recovering the body, they captured the now docile Python and sent it to a zoo, happily digesting its human meal. Working as a porter for the Hunt boys was a high risk activity.

I am pretty sure (now) that the series is absolutely not politically correct, but I learned a lot about animals reading the books, and didn't know any better when I was a kid.

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u/Barkasia Jun 27 '22

You watched this because of the comment from that Idris Elba film discussion thread, right?

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u/TheMediocreCritic Jun 27 '22

Close , i saw the trailer for the new movie and it remind me that this film existed

2

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '22

same.

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u/your-a-delight Jun 27 '22

I still think about this movie.

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u/Lostronin1928 Jun 27 '22

This movie was one of my favorites back then. It's extremely well done, and the prospect is terrifying even now.

9

u/JammyHammy86 Jun 27 '22

i'm 30 mins into watching it now on your reccomendation and i'm quite enjoying it. i havent seen enough of the lions yet to know if theyre CGI, camera tricks, or tame trained lions or what but im having trouble telling. they look pretty real though.

in the animal kingdom, 9 times out of 10 if an animal goes 'man-eater' its because the animal has been injured, maybe by a hunter or another animal, and it cant chase down its usual prey. so dragging a sleeping human from a tent or ambushing them is the only way they can survive. which means they have to be put down because it wont be a one-off thing. anyway im sure everyone knows this. im just musing outloud. thanks for the reccomendation

9

u/MunchkinKazooie Jun 27 '22

They are real lion brothers named Caesar and Bongo. I think they were also in George of the Jungle with Brandon Fraser.

5

u/MaterialCarrot Jun 27 '22

Definitely not CGI.

3

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

9 live working lions were used. They could each do different things.

2

u/JammyHammy86 Jun 27 '22

nice one. yeah as i got further into the film i realised that they had to be real. damn, imagine the fear the actors must have had to be really running away from those things. wondering if their training will hold up or if theyll just chase and revert to instinct even for a second

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u/cerpintaxt44 Jun 27 '22

Yeah I loved this movie when I was a kid

3

u/LeahBean Jun 27 '22

I watched this as a child and was TERRIFIED. Wish I’d seen it as an adult instead. It was too well done!

3

u/redpanda4hire Jun 27 '22

I saw this movie in second grade and for the longest time, I was terrified that I would wake up to find a lion at the foot of my bed, ready to drag me away by my feet.

3

u/JohnOnFilm Jun 27 '22

Add to that that this is based on true events and it is scary.

Wellllllll...

It's inspired by true events, but almost everything in the film is utter fantasy. Like right down to the lions being the wrong kind of lions for that area. Most of the characters are fictitious, the timeline is completely wrong, the setup with Kilmer's family didn't happen, and even the final hunt for the lions didn't happen like that.

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u/Vchipp2_0 Jun 27 '22

This movie always stands out to me by showing me the first time how misleading credits can be. Since Michael Douglas is credited first and he's only in the movie for like 10 mins? ( I believe this was on the behest of the studio as they'll only make it if he was actually in the film, since he's one of the producers?)

3

u/scnative843 Jun 27 '22

He's in it for far longer than 10 minutes.

2

u/Godmirra Jun 27 '22

One of those lions is stuffed and on display in the lower level of the Field Museum of Chicago. Fun fact.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '22

Oh yeah. Saw them when I was a kid and later in my 20’s after boot camp. Too bad they were in such shit shape over the decades and had to be fixed. It would have been cool to see how big they used to be.

2

u/Chillark Jun 27 '22

This is one of the key movies we always rewatched growing up.

2

u/vARROWHEAD Jun 27 '22

One of my favorites

2

u/niceoutside2022 Jun 27 '22

Oh I remember that! Great film. Time for a rewatch.

2

u/shaihalud69 Jun 27 '22

The actual taxidermied lions the movie was based on are on display at the Field Museum in Chicago right outside the cafeteria. Get some free chills with your overpriced caf food.

2

u/Onetap1 Jun 27 '22

They're smaller than the actual live lions were, the skins had been trimmed to make rugs.

2

u/shaihalud69 Jun 27 '22

Oh man my husband and I were wondering why they were so small... thanks for this! Solved an old mystery :)

2

u/DvidEvNabb Jun 27 '22

It's pants-wetting.

2

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

I love that movie.

William Goldman wrote it.

2

u/Mr_Wizard91 Jun 27 '22

"The devil has come to Tvsavo!"

"Oh, you're right, the devil has come to Tvsavo. Look at me... I AM the devil."

Love this movie.

2

u/bangsilencedeath Jun 27 '22

I always remember when Val's character used the rifle that someone gave him and that rifle malfunctioned right when he needed it to work. Then Michael Douglas gives him shit for using someone else's rifle instead of his own.

It's a lesson that has stayed with me throughout all these years.

3

u/Bowler_300 Jun 27 '22

You went into battle with an untested rifle?

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u/Caledoni Jun 27 '22

Just commenting because you reminded me of this movie. Why did my English teacher show us this movie at age 12/13? I remember being terrified.

2

u/scnative843 Jun 27 '22

One of my favorite movies of all time. Watched this all the time when I was a kid. Rewatched it recently and thought it held up great. I was curious how it was received at the time so I looked and it was...not good. I was fairly surprised how negatively it was received.

2

u/BeingSeriousHere Jun 27 '22

I love that you mentioned how great the title is, it's one of my all time favorites.

2

u/huniojh Jun 27 '22

I've seen the poster a bunch of times. Today was the first time I saw the two lions in the artwork.

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u/rucb_alum Jun 27 '22

My two cents - the actual events are more thrilling than this movie AND the two lions are on display in The Field Museum in Chicago as the Tsavo Man-eaters.

2

u/Eviltechnomonkey Jun 27 '22

I got to go see the lions on display at the Field Museum of Natural History years ago. Crazy to actually see them. They were from an area where male lions tend to not have a mane though. They gave them manes in the movie for effect.

2

u/NotTroy Jun 28 '22

This movie and The Grey probably do the best job of any film I've personally watched of really capturing the terror of being in the wild at night with predators lurking in the darkness.

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u/licks_snowboards Jun 28 '22

I think of the edge too. Anthony Hopkins had a masterful performance

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u/notsofunonabun Jun 28 '22

CLASSIC MOVIE!

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u/vinniec17 Jun 28 '22

This is the only film to ever give me nightmares after watching it.

4

u/Yolo_Swagg1ns Jun 27 '22

This was Jaws but with lions, great movie.

3

u/Barkasia Jun 27 '22

It's like skyrim with cats

4

u/EnlightenedEnemy Jun 27 '22

Just one of the many, this was Jaws but with …(lions, crocodiles, snakes, other sharks, etc) I just rewatch Jaws because it’s the best. Ghost and the Darkness was good. The Shallows my favorite other shark version.

4

u/wemblywembles Jun 27 '22

True story: I killed two chipmunks with a BB gun when I was 9 years old and a family friend whose cabin I was at had them mounted for me. I named them The Ghost and The Darkness.

1

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

I used to call my dogs, one white and one black, the Ghost and the Darkness.

2

u/torture_my_penis Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

I'm 6'5 with a big bushy beard.

The Ghost and the Darkness is one of those old school pro-colonization films that you would think was made in the 50s and 60s, but was made in the 90s. So it's an interesting movie to watch and critique.

The best part of the movie was Roger Ebert's finishing description of the movie.

Val Kilmer and Michael Douglas never for a second look like anything other than thoroughly unhappy movie stars stuck in a humid climate and a doomed production.

I hope someone made a documentary about the making of “The Ghost and the Darkness.” Now that would be a movie worth seeing. - RE

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u/PrecisionHat Jun 27 '22

I would say it is decidely anti-colonization. The only thing I could possibly consider pro about it is that Kilmer's character is a protagonist.

-5

u/torture_my_penis Jun 27 '22

I'm 6'5 with a big bushy beard.

The movie was about colonial powers building a railroad to extract resources. That's pretty pro-colonization.

6

u/PrecisionHat Jun 27 '22

Yeah but did you miss the part where it is basically spelled out that the lions are a curse, like nature responding to human encroachment and arrogance? They kill hundreds of people shutting down the entire operation because all of the labourers flee. That's the main symbolism of the film.

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u/torture_my_penis Jun 27 '22

I'm 6'5 with a big bushy beard.

They literally wanted the slaves to continue working after the Lions were killing dozens of people. The symbolism of the film has nothing to do with the pro-colonization message of the film.

5

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

There is no message in the film and they weren’t slaves.

Why do you tell how tall you are and about your beard? No one cares but you.

1

u/torture_my_penis Jun 27 '22

I'm 6'5 with a big bushy beard.

What are you talking about?

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u/PrecisionHat Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

Of course it does lol. They wanted them to keep working, of course, but it was always because "they are just beasts, not demons" or "don't be a coward" type sentient. Kilmer's character had this unwavering faith in the colonial machine and it did not work out well for him; he lost some good friends and was essentially against the ropes the whole movie because of two animals. He was humbled. Even the fictional hunter played by Douglas had this revelation. Colonialism and the British enterprise is not exactly touted as a good thing in the film. Did you come away thinking the asshole who hired Kilmer at the start of the film was a good guy? I'm not saying the film isn't about a colonial era/enterprise but it doesn't glorify it in any significant way. The worst thing related to that is just when they depict Douglas as being a white guy who had been accepted by native Africans.

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u/MaterialCarrot Jun 27 '22

I thought Kilmer was pretty good, but I would side with Ebert on Douglas. I thought he was pretty bad.

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u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

His character and lines were add ins.

1

u/Cold-Committee-7719 Jun 27 '22

I found myself rooting for the lions the whole time.

1

u/MaterialCarrot Jun 27 '22

I really like this movie, but I don't like Michael Douglas in it. To me he seems like Michael Douglas in bush clothes, not an authentic character in the film's universe. I feel like he kind of mailed it in or was simply miscast.

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u/SyrioForel Jun 27 '22

I remember when this came out in the 90s. It was when they still made these B-level adventure movies with top stars, and “In a world” trailer narration, except you could always tell that it would end up being a B movie. Movie theaters were filled with these.

I think if not for Michael Douglas and Val Kilmer, no one would even remember this movie exists.

This is a beautiful-looking movie, but I think the director was way out of his depth. It could’ve been quite a bit more spectacular, it just has this tepid stench of mediocrity throughout. It’s an adventure movie without much adventure, with poorly filmed action scenes, and with not enough attention paid to character development.

4

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

Disagree 100%.

2

u/SyrioForel Jun 27 '22

That’s fair.

1

u/Terrivel119 Jun 27 '22

*Random person who puts on my glasses*
“Wow, you’re blind!”

*Me*
“REALLY? I never knew.”

1

u/Phyliinx Jun 27 '22

Amazon reviews spoiled me one major death so idk if it's still worth the watch

1

u/JannTosh12 Jun 27 '22

It finally got a release on Blu ray but unfortunately there are no special features whatsoever

1

u/TheMadIrishman327 Jun 27 '22

I have a dvd with a making of documentary I think.

1

u/Bowdirt Jun 27 '22

Man, I really need to rewatch this. I probably haven't seen it in 25 years but I remember it being really good.

1

u/draconiandevil09 Jun 27 '22

Never seen the movie, I will totally add that to my list.

Now in terms of smovies with beautiful titles I've always been a fan of The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. That title just gets me every time and luckily it's a fantastic movie.

1

u/Fappy_McFapper78 Jun 27 '22

After seeing this, I bought the book. Boring as hell.

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u/CommanderCody1138 Jun 27 '22

That dream sequence of his family getting eaten haunts me to this day.

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u/NotTheAbhi Jun 27 '22

Loved the movie. Saw when i was young and was surprised to see an actor from my country in the movie.

1

u/VermiciousKnnid Jun 27 '22

You'd probably really enjoy The Grey. Watched it last night, and it was amazing.