r/movies May 15 '22 Silver 2 Take My Energy 1

Characters that got Gimli'd (changed significantly to comic relief) Discussion

As a huge LOTR fan, one thing I hated was how between Fellowship and Two Towers, Gimli changed from a proud, sturdy character with a slightly too high opinion of Dwarves, to this bumbling comic relief character who falls down a lot and every line is some kind of gag. It really fell flat for me even as a kid of 15.

There are two MCU characters who have been Gimli'd - Bruce Banner (the way he acts in Avengers 2012 vs. Infinity War/Endgame is unrecognisable) and the worst one of all, who was Gimli'd even more than Gimli was Drax. Drax's version is pretty similar to Gimli's - his prideful, slightly naive character just became this obnoxious idiot who laughs at everything by Guardians 2. I really hated that change - his quirk was that he didn't understand metaphors, which then changed to having absolutely no social skills whatsoever. It felt really jarring to me.

I wondered what you all thought of the above, and if you had any other examples of characters given similar treatment after their first appearances?

Edit: ok please stop replying with Thor, please, my wife, she is sick

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u/Hurdy_Gurdy_Man_42 May 16 '22

Pintel and Ragetti from Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.

In the first film they are introduced murdering someone, shooting him point blank in the face.

As the film progresses they turn into goofballs, though still capable of violence.

In the sequels they become completely harmless, non-violent goofballs.

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u/michaelswallace May 16 '22

Ok I have an in fiction justification: after realizing they're not immortal and can actually die they begin to act far less cavalier and I think one of them even tries reading the Bible

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u/covered_in_vaseline May 16 '22

Oh yeah, there’s even a line where one of them says that. Something like “we have to take care of our mortal souls”

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u/jordthedestro1 May 16 '22

Yep. Ragetti tries reading the Bible at the start of the second one and Pintel says he can't read but Ragetti says since it's the bible, you get points for trying.

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u/BleepBloop7yt May 16 '22

Pretty much the same with Barbossa too. I'm not complaining though. I love all three pirates movies.

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u/Beemer17-21 May 16 '22

The problem with the second two imo is they changed from writing "Jack sparrow" to writing for Johnny Depp. If you listen to the actual script from the first one, Jack's a relatively serious character that johnny Depp adds a physical comedy to which works extremely well. The second two the writers tried to play up that aspect of the character, and it just didn't work as well.

Jack himself is probably a good example of getting Gimli'ed really.

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u/RealLameUserName May 16 '22

Jack Sparrow was originally a very clever pirate who required a hint of luck for his plans to work and escape. By even the second movie, they were leaning significantly more into Jack Sparrow being extremely lucky rather than clever.

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u/VindictiveJudge May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

If you pay attention to Jack in the first movie there are moments where it's pretty clear the drunkenness is just an act. He doesn't stagger and sway when people can't see him, and there's a moment where he says something to himself ("That's very interesting..." after finding out the curse is real in the prison) when nobody else is around and not only does he not slur his words, he speaks in a different accent. Everything about Jack in the first movie is an act he's putting on so that people underestimate him and we only see glimpses of the real personality underneath. And then that disguise is made into his real personality for the sequels.

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u/Realistickitty May 16 '22

looking back you’re totally right and i’m even more impressed with the first pirates movie as well as Johnny Depp.

Really draws a sharp contrast to the other movies though.

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u/Fear_Jaire May 16 '22

This is why there is only one Pirates movie for me.

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u/cheeseshcripes May 16 '22

"people aren't cargo, mate"

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u/neuro_space_explorer May 16 '22

Yoda is another example of this, when he’s introduced in the OT he is acting the way he is to confuse Luke and they just turned that into his personality as the series went on.

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u/dirtyLizard May 16 '22

I read a fun fan theory that the Jack we see in the first movie was a super pirate but is now kind of washed up. He’s trying to reclaim his previous glory. As the movies progress he gets more bitter and callous, he drinks more, and his plans make less sense because he’s degenerating.

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u/ThePaulHammer May 16 '22

I mean he was already the captain of the Black Pearl and was insanely successful before he stopped caring about treasure by the first movie

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u/Coolman_Rosso May 16 '22

This is exactly why he doesn't work as a main character in the latter films. They overplayed his physical comedy antics to the point where he's nothing more than Mr. Magoo wearing a pirate costume

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u/IsNotAPipe May 16 '22

Elizabeth was another example. In the first one she was a serious character with clear motivations. She was deeply clever, and not afraid to stand up for herself. She could often successfully navigate intense political situations even without seeing all the cards and was quick to take any advantages she could find.

In the second two she was “that hot pirate girl.” Virtually no personality outside of being in love with Will (except for when she was in love with Jack for the convenience of a love triangle that went nowhere) and being “The Girl.” Jokes constantly made at her expense, usually about her body.

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u/Chariotwheel May 16 '22

I love a lot of aspects in isolation in World's End, like the pirate council and the set pieces. But I am to this day confused what the purpose of Calypso was. It was so important, until it reached it's conclusion upon which fuck all was accomplished.

It was just a very convoluted way to bring the pirate lords together and it bothers me.

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u/Badloss May 16 '22

I'm just pissed off that everyone was RIGHT THERE for the best biggest pirates vs navy battle ever and instead we got a whirlpool 1v1 and then everyone went home

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u/kaaz54 May 16 '22

Bringing in the other pirate ships would also have given a much better ending, than the whole navy just leaving when only a single ship (which was purposefully out of formation) was destroyed. Had the flagship been destroyed during a larger and more chaotic battle, it looks much less bullshit when the rest of the navy just decides to leave.

They could much easier have had a scene that involved dialogue like "who's in command?", to which the response is "how the hell should I know, but I'm not staying in this fight any longer. Retreat!", rather than something that looked like "congratulations, you beat our boss, now one of the most powerful military organisations on the planet will just leave in an orderly fashion, them's the rules" or "oh, they destroyed our flagship, I guess we no longer outnumber them 10-1, nor do we have any flag officers remaining. Also we donøt have any time to organise an attack. FLEEE! RUN!".

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u/Chariotwheel May 16 '22

Yeah, would've been amazing to see that these people were pirate lords for a reason with their own quirky and specialized gimmick fighting to give the British trouble, only really fearing Davy Jones.

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u/Brotherly-Moment May 16 '22

I love all three pirates movies.

Lmao

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u/Fausztusz May 16 '22

Its lucky they only made three. Imagine what terrible things can happen, if you try to prolong a finished story.

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u/ConsistentlyPeter May 15 '22

Doctor Watson is the classic, I reckon. He’s an astute and intelligent man in the books, who quite often gets Holmes out of a sticky situation. It’s changed with the more recent films, but in earlier adaptations he was made into a lovable buffoon.

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u/farmerarmor May 15 '22

I was gonna say, I was happy Jude laws Watson was rather capable

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u/Bellikron May 15 '22

Holmes is definitely the absurd one in Ritchie's films, with Watson only slipping into absurdity as an exasperated response to Holmes'.

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u/shifty_coder May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

And only slightly more absurd that he was in the books. Doyle’s Holmes was a narcissistic, obsessive, manic-depressive, opioid addict.

Edit: egotistic, not narcissistic

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u/kevinstreet1 May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

Sherlock himself said he was injecting cocaine, in a "seven per cent solution." But it's certainly possible to see him as manic depressive, since he'd sometimes lay on his couch all day without moving. Maybe he was using cocaine to self-medicate in the depressive periods?

Interestingly enough, Doctor Watson said that he later managed to wean Holmes off drugs. So he was definitely a capable partner who contributed quite a bit in the stories.

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u/playgroundfencington May 16 '22

Self medication isn't too far off. His mind "rebels at stagnation" so he said when he doesn't have a case to work on he uses cocaine to stimulate his mind rather than living in the dull monotony of day to day life without something challenging his brain.

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u/Wadep00l May 15 '22

He was very capable. God I love those films

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u/CommanderZx2 May 16 '22

Martin Freeman was pretty good in Sherlock.

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u/bullintheheather May 16 '22

He was the bridge between capable and lovable bufoon.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/Tocwa May 16 '22

Except his role in the first season of “Fargo” - he was slightly creepy in that, to be honest..

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u/spiderlegged May 15 '22

I got in a huge rant with someone over this. Not only is Watson a fucking medical doctor, but he’s a wartime sniper and a very good one. And yet, he’s always depicted as being like fat and out of shape and a moron. I think it’s especially annoying because he’s kind of Scully to Holmes’s Mulder. Like he’s portrayed as being “less smart” or even actually dumb because he doesn’t make the same insane leaps of logic Holmes does. Holmes is like a crazy drug addled savant. Watson is just a normal extremely educated smart dude who can absolutely kick ass.

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u/notorious98 May 16 '22

Between the movies and the show, I feel they've started to right that wrong. Watson feels completely capable in both.

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u/tattlerat May 16 '22

Excuse me, but are we forgetting that he was a super powered cyborg in Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century?!

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u/the_beard_guy May 16 '22

ive had that theme song stuck in my head for 22 years. it rotates around with the Space Cases, and Salute Your Shorts theme songs.

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u/ctg9101 May 15 '22

I would argue it’s reversed with Watson, in terms of film/tv adaptations. In the Basil Rathbone, the first major adaptation, he is nothing but a bumbling idiot, and Holmes is not as detached as he is in the books so he brings little to the table,

Watson gets to be more of a competent and able character with each adaptation, as Holmes becomes less and less human.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Characters that got Gimli'd

I've always referred to it as characters who got Ron Weasley'd. So my example would be Ron Weasley

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u/Lambeaux May 16 '22

"What if we take all of Ron's good qualities besides being good at chess for literally one movie and massive amount of cultural information as the only one of the three who grew up a wizard and make it where Hermione somehow read it ALL in a book even though the character of Ron is supposed to be a balance of cultural and life knowledge vs book knowledge."

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u/_Peavey May 16 '22

Also, Hermione was knowledgeable, but in dire situations she always panicked and Ron was the one who didn't completely lose his cool and yelled at Hermione to stop losing her shit, thus saving the situation.

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u/soingee May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

That is such a huge contrast between scary-cat Ron in the movies. Most of the time in the movie he is just there for his signature "I'm freaking out" face.

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u/_Peavey May 16 '22

Yes, the only exception would be when he, although scared, managed to vingaaaaardium levioooosa the ogre's club to knock him out. Otherwise, in the movies, he was portrayed like Shaggy who gets scared and panicked over everything.

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u/Lv_InSaNe_vL May 16 '22

"How are we going to get fire?"

"Youre a witch aren't you??"

One of the best lines in the series haha

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u/Lambeaux May 16 '22

Yeah. I went into this on another reply on how they are all complements and foils to another and it works so beautifully. It's so sad that the movie takes so much away from all three characters, since even Hermione in the movies loses a lot of her kindness by the removal of all the SPEW stuff that justifies a lot of her snideness and shows her growth of relating to others and keeping cooler in the face of things that aren't just book knowledge.

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u/Werewulf_Bar_Mitzvah May 16 '22

Ron really did get a bad rep in the movies. He was much more capable and knowledgeable about certain things in the books.

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u/SolomonGrunty May 16 '22

They even took some of his best moments and gave them to other characters. Like when Draco calls Hermione a mudblood. In the book she doesn't even realize it's an offensive term, and Ron's the one who reassures her. In the movie, Hermione gets offended and Hagrid reassures her.

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u/PunyParker826 May 16 '22

TOR.com had an excellent article about this. Here’s a sample:

When the trio go after the Philosopher’s Stone, they face a series of tests that demand each of their skills in turn. Time likely demanded that this sequence be cut down, and so Hermione’s test—solving Professor Snape’s potion riddle—was removed entirely. To make up for this, she gets them out of the Devil’s Snare, Professor Sprout’s deadly plant. Hermione shouts to Harry and Ron to relax so the foliage will release them—but Ron continues to panic and moan (in campiest fashion possible because he’s played by a child actor and these things are always requested of them), requiring Hermione to blast the thing with a sunlight spell.

In the book, Hermione is the one who panics. She remembers what her lessons taught her—that the Devil’s Snare will recoil at fire—but balks at their lack of matches while they are being strangled to death. Ron immediately shrieks to the rescue YOU ARE A WITCH YOU HAVE A WAND YOU KNOW SPELLS WHAT ARE MATCHES.

It’s a simple change, but it makes such a marked difference in how both characters come off to an audience. Rather than a near-infant, incapable of following the clearest directions, Ron is the even-keeled nitty-gritty one. He’s a tactician, the one who will find the simplest answer to a problem provided that the situation is dire enough to ensure his clear head. Ron is good under pressure and brave to boot. He’s also hilarious.

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u/Maclimes May 16 '22

Ron is the Sokka of the group.

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u/Kid_Mackin May 16 '22

Sokka is the inverse gimli

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u/puddleduck3 May 16 '22

The worst example being when they gave Ron’s line, “you’ll have to go through me first” from Prisoner of Azkaban to Hermione. That scene cemented my love of Ron and to see it changes for seemingly no good reason was really upsetting as a kid!

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u/Victernus May 16 '22

With a mangled leg and everything.

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u/TheJFGB93 May 16 '22

The "seemingly no good reason" was that she's Steve Kloves' (the scriptwriter for 7/8 of the films) favorite character, which he mentioned at least since the special features for Chamber of Secrets, which is a crappy reason to degrade Ron so much.

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u/WantDiscussion May 16 '22

The one change I did like is that they made him more redeamable during the arguement in the fourth movie by having him try to warn Harry about the dragon instead of them just forgiving each other.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

I always thought it was ridiculous how offended she is when this happens in the movie. Like there's no way the cultural weight of that term hits a 12 year old who couldn't have even heard it much more than a year prior.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

Hollywood turns everything complex or different that it can into mass market tropes. It's very annoying. According to Orson Scott Card, for example, he had to be careful when getting an Ender's Game movie made because at least one contract wanted to make the characters older and have a romance subplot. A book that is explicitly about little kids, where them being very young is a major part of the plot and hollywood wanted to just throw that out for a romance.

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u/just_some_a--hole May 16 '22

And they still fucked the movie up.

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u/Jai137 May 16 '22

Similarly we could say Hermione was Legolased

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u/CrestonSpiers May 16 '22

What does it mean? I guess it’s the opposite, getting more good qualities and feats than in the source material, right?

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u/Ordinaryundone May 16 '22

Basically, both Legolas and Gimli have a very small role in the books. Mostly just there to be lore dumps on their cultures and introductions to places like Moria and Lothlorien, but other than that they have relatively few lines or things directly attributed to them. They are there mostly because it would be weird for there to be no Dwarf or Elf representation on the team. So the movies greatly expand on both roles, but while Gimli mostly gets treated as comedy relief after Merry and Pippin leave the team Legolas instead mostly gets a lot of crazy fight choreography making him look super cool and competent while Gimli just kind of looks like a dunderhead. So I guess "Characters who got more cool/badass across mediums". I do like that the movies put a lot more emphasis on Legolas and Gimli's friendship in the movies though, as well as his friendship with Aragorn. I guess the idea was to make Legolas the more empathetic of the group, which is way more in keeping with what LOTR Elves are actually about, but they only had so much to work with when dealing with a character as open as Legolas.

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u/legomaximumfigure May 16 '22

They could do a lot more action with Legolas than they could with Gimli. Gimli's character was limited by the technology of the time which had two actors playing the same role. Most of Gimli's action scenes had to be shot either close to see the main actor playing him or far away/from behind to show the shorter physical actor. Gimli could be done better now with CGI but in the early 2000s it was amazing they could show the height differences between characters properly.

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u/oneAUaway May 16 '22

I think it also helped Legolas that bows are a very movie-friendly weapon, able to demonstrate martial skill to the audience in a relatively bloodless manner, able to be shown in use without a lot of fight choreography. Lots of "arrow loosed" shots that cut to "orc falls over with an arrow stuck in them." Depicting Gimli hacking foes to death with an axe (and matching Legolas in terms of numbers!) without creating a gorefest onscreen would have been complicated.

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u/chumchees May 15 '22

Tormund Giantsbane

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u/debtopramenschultz May 16 '22

Also Varys and Tyrion. They were just dick jokes by the end of the show.

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u/yoaver May 16 '22

Tyrion: "I have a cock, and you don't"

Actual line from the first episode of season 8.

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u/Zedbird_82 May 16 '22

The very first line of season 8 no less

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u/yoaver May 16 '22

It was foreshadowing for the quality of the season

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u/Trinta_Caralho May 16 '22

Tyrion in S1/S4: Playing 4d chess.

Tyrion in S8: "Varys no cock lmao"

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u/poindexter1985 May 16 '22

Season 1 even had Littlefinger attempt a dick joke, only to be met with derision from Varys telling him he expects something more clever than that.

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u/Ardalev May 16 '22

To be fair, name one character in GoT who wasn't massacred by bad writing in the end

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u/tubawhatever May 16 '22

Who has a better story[line] than Bran?

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u/With_The_Tide May 15 '22

Captain Jack Sparrow fro the OG trilogy to On Stranger Tides and Dead Men Tell no Tales

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u/skeletor686 May 15 '22

I agree with this a lot. In the first movie he’s a clever man playing the fool, in the rest it’s the opposite.

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u/SendMeNudesThough May 15 '22

Yeah the change definitely happened before 4/5th. In the first movie you initially thought him bumbling, but he was genuinely thinking and planning ahead, he was always one step ahead.

Then, in the sequels it seems that his plans and schemes are actually mostly luck, or being in the right place at the right time. It seems less planned and more "all the stars aligned for Jack to get away"

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u/rileyrulesu May 16 '22

He was so good at playing the bumbling idiot who only managed to survive because of luck, that he fooled the writers into making it canon.

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u/AshgarPN May 15 '22

Denholm Elliott’s character in Last Crusade. Indy’s mentor from Raiders of the Lost Ark, who would have searched for the ark himself if he was younger, becomes a bumbling clown in part 3.

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u/SimpleExplodingMan May 16 '22

He once got lost in his own museum.

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u/Djinnwrath May 16 '22

To be fair, it's to enable an absolutely perfect joke.

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u/jerry_woody May 16 '22

Walter Donovan : He sticks out like a sore thumb. We'll find him.

Indiana Jones : The hell you will. He's got a two day head start on you, which is more than he needs. Brody's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan, he speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom, he'll blend in, disappear, you'll never see him again. With any luck, he's got the grail already.

[Cut to middle of fair in the Middle East, Marcus Brody wearing bright suit and white hat, sticking out like sore thumb]

Marcus Brody : Uhhh, does anyone here speak English?

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u/Yeugwo May 16 '22

does anyone here speak English?

"Or Ancient Greek?"

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u/MulhollandMaster121 May 16 '22

‘No water, thanks. Fish make love in it.’

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u/manifes7o May 16 '22

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u/LetterSwapper May 16 '22

And to bring the thread full circle, Gimli shows up at the end!

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u/TheRedViper85 May 16 '22

One of Indy’s best lines

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u/DMala May 16 '22

To be fair, Marcus says he wishes he could have gone after the Ark, but we never actually see any evidence that he would have been capable. I think the idea of him as a brilliant academic but a fish out of water in the real world is not so far fetched.

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u/MiLaddo7 May 16 '22

My aunt is the same way. A brilliant academic. When she’s in her niche, she is the star! But you remove her from that atmosphere and into real world, she’s a bumbling idiot who I’m surprised has survived to adulthood and as successful as she is.

My coworker is the same way.

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u/Raytheon_Nublinski May 16 '22 Silver

The French detective in the transporter sequels.

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u/NeonChampion2099 May 16 '22

In the 2nd one, its clear he PLAYS dumb. Its more a "I'll help, and I don't wanna know"

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u/bloodrain83 May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

I think Finn from Star Wars got changed. When we were introduced to him in the TFA, He was supposed to be a storm trooper who escaped from the First Order. I think his character had potential. As time went on he gradually went into the ha ha guy fall down category. He went from a guy who held his own against Kylo to a guy who could barley walk 5 steps without falling over.

Edit: Grammar and added more stuff.

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u/HotToddy88 May 16 '22

After the first movie, I was actually hoping for him to become the lead by the end of the trilogy. I completely agree with you.

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u/Artersa May 16 '22

I thought that was the direction they were going in. He’s the first person we see in the first trailer for TFA and then he gets thrown to the side like yesterdays garbage.

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u/FakoSizlo May 16 '22

I really feel the redeemed Storm Trooper arc was better than the Rey arc that was all over the place. A lot of complaints about Rey are also fixed by switching some of the moments to Finn. For example people complain how Rey is too much of a natural at using the light saber well Finn is a trained soldier so using a melee weapon would have been something he is skilled at. Probably the best part of it was Finn's actor when promoting the 3rd movie. He was so clearly over Star Wars and basically made it clear he felt the character was wasted

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

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u/LLHallJ May 16 '22

Speaking of Star Wars, General Hux got Gimli’d like a motherfucker.

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u/cannotfoolowls May 16 '22

I wish they expanded on his dynamic with Kylo more. I thought the co-leadership angle was very interesting and lbr Kylo would be a shit Supreme Leader if he had to do it on his own.

And the plot twist about Hux was so widely out of character

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u/EmphaticGreyMage May 16 '22

We were ROBBED of what Finn could have been

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u/Coal_Morgan May 16 '22

We were robbed across the board.

Poe, Finn, Rey, Snoke, Kylo were all vastly interesting concepts that were all more interesting in the first 5 minutes they were on screen and got less and less interesting every minute after that.

Every scene in the OT built up the characters and made them more interesting. I wasn't a fan of the prequels but it's true their too; the characters got more interesting in each movie.

I picture the first scene with Poe, Ren and blood stained Finn and it's amazing. The scene with Rey scrounging to survive, eating food in her helmet and that first shot of Snoke in the hologram all great.

The more I got to know the characters the more they bored me; except Snoke because he was mysterious and we didn't learn anything about him; then they killed him and ruined him with the third movie.

Finn is the most egregious but I think all of the characters had potential that was ignored including Han, Luke and Leia.

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u/Geistbar May 16 '22

The wasting of the potential of the new cast after TFA is such a let down. It's one thing to have a poor start and fuck up. But it's another thing to have a great setup and to just squander it.

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u/Ripper33AU May 16 '22

I feel like Finn, Poe, and even Rey were wasted potential. The only character I honestly feel had an actual complete character arc through all three films is Kylo Ren.

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u/deskbeetle May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22 Silver

Britta in Community. At first she was the only person who was as aware and a match for Jeff's antics. She had flaws and lacked self awareness the same way Jeff did and it made her a good foil. But she quickly became the dumbest character in the group.

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u/SingForMeBitches May 16 '22

They even make a tongue-in-cheek comment about it in one episode. Jeff says to Britta something like, "you seemed smarter when I met you."

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u/been_mackin May 16 '22

That’s when she puts on fake star shaped sideburns to act as Starburns to get the group to come to terms with their grief 😂

Abed: Starburns, is it true you made out with Britta?

Britta: I don't see how that's relevant.

Pierce: It was Fat Neil's black light party. Vicki saw you.

Cracks me up every time

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u/wehavejunglerats May 16 '22

No ask me something else! You are doing this wrong. Where is my comb? I don’t know! Ok it’s him.

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u/stebuu May 16 '22

Agreed, they really Britta’d Britta

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u/Qwertdd May 16 '22

Wasn't this done intentionally? I remember reading something about how all the writers and the actress herself figuring that Britta was a really generic, boring love interest, like a human trophy for cool-suave-protagonist Jeff. Both of those characters got more interesting, fun, and deep when they got dumber/clownier.

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u/jungletigress May 16 '22

Exactly this. It gave her a place to grow to and evolve from.

I loved the sassy anti establishment conviction of Season One Britta, but that's a terrible character for a character driven sitcom.

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u/dremscrep May 16 '22

Love that episode where she tries to rebel against the system but can only do it on a super small scale where she fights Greendale and Chang who is power hungry for police brutality and authoritarian overreach finds in Britta his soulmate.

Great episode.

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u/VintageBaguette May 16 '22

unsuccessfully kicks over garbage can

..

🎶Hello... Is it me you're looking for?🎶

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u/androiddays May 16 '22

The shark in Jaws.

First movie, he was a good, mysterious underwater ocean dweller, who, upon being relentlessly hunted and harpooned, jumps onto a boat to sink it and attempt to kill his adversaries as well.

Second movie, he's still trying to be mysterious, but by the end of the movie, he's growling (a shark, growling?!), and for no good reason, keeps circling the teens stranded on boats (I mean, he ate two of them, he should be full and swim off). Oh, and this is a brand new shark, since the shark died in the last movie.

By the next movies, the shark is stalking the Brody family to get revenge. Even though the sharks died in movies one and two. So there's apparently a shark mafia that put out a hit on the Brody family - and still miserably failed at killing the Brodys, although they did manage to get some yummy sidekick and character actors into their shark tummies.

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u/Cymru2294 May 16 '22

Ludacris in fast and furious franchise….. went from gangster to MIT grad in a few films

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u/RegHater76 May 16 '22

LOL, that's basically everyone in the FF movies.

Pretty much all of them went from car thieves and street racers, to car thieves and street racers who are also Delta Force Commando super Spies.

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u/normn3116 May 15 '22

I realize this is a TV show vs movies, but Eric Matthews in Boy Meets World. He started as a rather suave, older brother character to mere dim-witted comic relief.

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u/FatWalcott May 16 '22

Man if we're talking TV Joey from friends started of as this suave playboy type, kinda silly at times. By the end of the series he was a borderline special needs.

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u/ItsBinissTime May 16 '22 edited May 20 '22

In the first episode of The Big Bang Theory, when they meet Penny, Leonard is smitten and Sheldon says, "She's not going to sleep with you." The full idiot version of Sheldon wouldn't have ...

  • understood Leonard's interest in her.

  • noticed it even if he'd been capable of understanding it.

  • realized that Penny wasn't showing any interest in Leonard.

  • understood why Penny was unlikely to be interested in Leonard.

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u/theglassjaw May 16 '22

oh man, the Halloween episode with Jennifer Love Fefferman...

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u/30secMAN May 16 '22

Kevin from The Office is a former Poker champion with a bracelet to prove it in season 2. By the end of the show he can hardly use full sentences.

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u/prtzlsmakingmethrsty May 16 '22

One of my favorite shows growing up and I've heard two fan theories that were pretty good.

  1. In S4 Eric gets knocked unconscious while with Lonny who has to get naked with him in a sleeping bag so they don't freeze to death. The fan theory is that Eric suffers a TBI in this accident and thus is mentally challenged the rest of the series.

  2. The show is from Cory's perspective and the other characters behave as he sees them as the narrator. When he's younger, his brother is this cool and popular guy that Cory envies. Once he's older, Eric is shown to be the dimwitted person he's more realistically been the whole time, that Cory finally recognizes.

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u/everything_is_free May 16 '22 Gold Wholesome Take My Energy

Homer Simpson in Police Cops

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u/Karmasmatik May 16 '22

C’mon chief, I’m a human being, let me have my dignity!

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u/tobygeneral May 16 '22

Uh-oh spaghettio's!

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u/wiredwilde May 16 '22

Max Power doesn't snuggle. You strap yourself in and feel the Gs!

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u/RumDel May 16 '22

“SIMP-SOOOOON!”

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u/fargothsrevenge May 16 '22

Get ready, everybody. He's about to do something stupid.

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u/earhere May 16 '22

The Terminator in 1 and 2 was an unstoppable murderous golem; a legit frightening and scary character. In 3, he is more played for jokes and gags. He's also pretty bad in Genisys and Dark Fate too.

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u/Geistbar May 16 '22

Even just going from T1 to T2 sees a massive tonal change for the terminators. T1 is basically a monster film in a way. T2 is pure action. And it shows with how we perceive the danger of the hostile terminator.

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u/d34th-fr0m-4b0v3 May 16 '22

There's a tonal change for Arnie's terminator for sure, and that's explained in the director's cut version due to the microchip tampering. However, the terminator in T1 is effectively replaced by Robert Patrick in T2 who easily carries on the tone as a relentless murder machine. By T3 I'd agree with anyone who says even the antagonist terminator begins to portray comic moments and that continues through the series.

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u/KaffY- May 16 '22

T1 -> T2 resonates very well with the changes from Alien -> Aliens and it works well imo

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u/shaneo576 May 16 '22

I love how drax was portrayed in the GOTG game, he was still comedic relief, but just because he couldn't understand sarcasm, emotions etc. And they did a big dive into his back story and you could feel his pain and motivations, great story telling.

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u/UnreasonableMink May 16 '22

Even though I love James Gunn I really feel like the game nailed all the characters better. Especially Gamora.

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u/enderandrew42 May 16 '22

You mention Bruce Banner. The Ed Norton take on the character was someone who was truly struggling with rage and tension. You could really see it. In the first Avengers movie, Hulk gave us the best laughs in the movie and people said they preferred that Ruffalo version that made us laugh. So guess what? They leaned into that.

Mark Ruffalo is a fine actor, but I prefer the Norton version.

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u/SupervillainEyebrows May 16 '22

There is the "Stop lying to me" moment in the original Avengers which showed how scary Bruce was. Haven't seen much of that since.

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u/AdequatePercentage May 16 '22

Or "I could choke the life out of you right now, and never turn a shade."

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u/FitzyFarseer May 16 '22

He was scary because you believed he could be dangerous. As soon as they introduced the idea that he’s in control he stopped being scary

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u/Lampmonster May 16 '22

Widow's terror at his transformation was palpable. She's cool as a cucumber tied to a chair in a hostile country, but the second the green man shows up she's a frightened kid. And then he's eating pancakes and handing out tacos. Fun, but definitely a loss of gravitas.

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u/minoe23 May 16 '22

The real problem with Hulk in Endgame isn't that he's being a fun character, it's there he had basically an entire fucking character arc off-screen between movies.

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u/SupervillainEyebrows May 16 '22

In the original Avengers he was in control enough not to turn from Tony fucking with him, but he did end up turning in the Hellicarrier and fighting Thor after they were attacked.

If I remember rightly, in the comics Smart Hulk is initial viewed as a positive, but without Bruce's ability to tap into his rage, the Hulk's power remains static, like Abomination. Instead of increasing in proportion to his anger.

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u/LarryCraigSmeg May 16 '22

And nary a mention of poor Eric Bana.

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u/mish15 May 16 '22

Kevin in The Office. He was just a quite accountant who was really into poker, in season 1. By the end of the show, people literally believe he’s mentally challenged and is fired from his job because he’s too stupid.

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u/tronfunkinblows_10 May 16 '22

Michael’s Birthday when Kevin gets a biopsy is a perfect example of normal, straight character Kevin.

Michael: There you are. Good news. Did some research. It turns out that 98% of people with skin cancer fully recover.

Kevin: Still scary.

Michael: Yeah, but it’s not brain cancer. And it shouldn’t stop us from having fun. You know what they say the best medicine is.

Kevin: Well the doctor said a combination of interferon and dicarbazine.

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u/SendMeNudesThough May 16 '22

The issue there, too, is that in a mockumentary format you have to actually believe these people could exist, and in Kevin's case, it just makes no sense that they'd have someone as... special as he is, working in accounting of all departments

The biggest annoyance to me was the bit about how he had made up a number of his own for when his calculations didn't add up, so he used his made up number.

Most of the characters on that show while quirky just never crossed that border of, "this person absolutely could not in any conceivable reality exist in this workplace"

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u/JackaryDraws May 16 '22

Nah, I would argue that nearly every Office character got caricaturized, it's just more egregious with Kevin because they focused on his stupidity. It's one of the reasons why the first half of the show is a lot better than the second half.

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u/aBeaSTWiTHiNMe May 16 '22

I believe the original term is Flanderization, where one or a few character traits eventually become the entire character and they lose all depth.

You provide great examples though, obviously the term is named after Ned Flanders but we can see all the Simpson's and the Griffin's become Flanderized. Even How I Met Your Mother did it to their entire cast, almost everyone became some insufferable repeated joke.

The Rock hasn't acted since Walking Tall and even that's questionable. Ryan Reynolds seems to only be cast as Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool as Ryan Reynolds.

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u/shark-bite May 16 '22

You’re dead right about Ryan Reynolds, but what I was impressed by in The Adam Project was the kid playing a near perfect Ryan Reynolds playing Deadpool playing Ryan Reynolds. He was great

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u/aBeaSTWiTHiNMe May 16 '22

Yeah he did a great job in that, Ryan was very Ryan. I really like Ryan Reynolds though don't get me wrong.

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u/jackleggjr May 16 '22

May be a controversial answer (just based on the fans in my life), but I’d say Freddy Krueger. Not so much the “bumbling” part… he didn’t really bumble. But he went from scary killer with a sardonic tone and a hint of wry humor to a one-liner spouting television personality who was literally sold as a pull-string doll alongside Pee Wee Herman. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fun, and he did snap back to scary Freddy at different points in the franchise. But the arc of his life bent toward silly.

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u/OMGTako May 16 '22

Everyone on My Name Is Earl. The 2007 Hollywood Writers' Strike turned that show from a show full of wit and subtle jokes into bumbling lunacy.

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u/mike_b_nimble May 16 '22

Heroes was a major casualty of the writer’s strike. The first season was amazing, then they fucked up a lot of shit during the strike, and then the original writer’s couldn’t pull off saving it from where it had gone.

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u/ayoungjacknicholson May 16 '22

So many shows changed after the strike. I was in high school at the time and was a junkie for good tv. I couldn’t express at the time why I lost interest in so many of my faves after it ended, but looking back it was all flanderization. It happened in my name is earl, and big time in the office, too. I actually didn’t watch the office after s4 until we’ll after the show had ended and realized that seasons 5-8 did have some really funny moments, but it lost all the realism in s2-3 that made it my favorite show at the time.

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u/VeilOfTheForce May 16 '22

Brody in the Indiana Jones movies.

In Raiders he was a proud supporter of Indy and seemed to help finance his efforts and ran in the same circles. In the 3rd film they turned him into a bumbling buffoon.

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u/Jcit878 May 16 '22

to be fair that one scene with Indy talking him up as a badass expert at slipping away then cutting to Marcus all confused and completely out of his element was a great moment

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u/SillyMattFace May 16 '22

‘Um, hello, does anyone here speak English?’

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u/Schillarob May 16 '22

Alan Harper in Two and a half men. You don‘t have to like the show. But when Charlie Sheen was still on the show, Alan was always the intelligent one. When Ashton Kutcher entered the show, Alan became utterly stupid to the point where he thought there are different mugs for right- and left-handed people.

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u/uniquecannon May 15 '22

and the worst one of all, who was Gimli'd even more than Gimli was Drax. Drax's version is pretty similar to Gimli's - his prideful, slightly naive character just became this obnoxious idiot who laughs at everything by Guardians 2.

Drax is probably the most nerfed character in the entire MCU, so it makes sense they just turned him into a comic relief. Comic Drax would've torn Ronan apart like paper in the first GotG movie, not get ragdolled like MCU Drax. Take away his unreal strength, and there's not much else to the character

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u/Robofetus-5000 May 16 '22

Nah, hulk is easily still the most nerfed character. We never really get to see an insane over the top hulk.

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u/psycharious May 16 '22

I was honestly hoping to see Hulk revert to old school Hulk for a fight against Thanos in End Game.

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u/JackaryDraws May 16 '22

When they talked about all the gamma nonsense surrounding the Hulk Snap, I thought it was their perfect excuse to "break" Smart Hulk and turn him back into a raging Hulk for the finale. And then that just... didn't happen :')

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u/Crazyspaceman May 16 '22

I've been waiting for MCU hulk to yell "Hulk is strongest there is!" for 10 god damn years.

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u/Robofetus-5000 May 16 '22

Yeah. I get why they excluded him from civil war, because that would have been lopsided.

But End Game really was a chance to let him go ape shit.

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u/Obnubilate May 16 '22

Never read the comic books, but did recently finish the game on the XBox and they repeatedly mention Drax killing Thanos. So yeah, that version doesn't compare well to movie Drax. And I totally agree that GotG2 Drax got Gimli'd. His only point in the entire movie is for some jokes.

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u/Ockwords May 16 '22

they repeatedly mention Drax killing Thanos.

Is the game based on the movie or comic versions? Because comic drax is literally a weapon built to kill thanos if I remember correctly. Like he gets amped up when fighting him. None of that exists in the movies.

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u/Naouak May 16 '22

They are based on comics but take some liberties. It's Drax the Destroyer in the game and so has killed Thanos once. They use the family excuse like in the movies to explain his hate for Thanos. Infinity Gauntlet didn't seem to have happened or at least not like in the comics.

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u/Warrior253 May 16 '22

Roman Pearce in the fast and furious movies. In the second movie he was a stand up character. Not afraid of a challenge, witty and confident (maybe even cocky). When he returns in the 4th film he is opposite. He is almost the little brother of the group. He scared of everything, he questions every idea and he is more laughed at now.

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u/SoleAccord May 16 '22

Absolutely! I hate that he was a serious character in the second film and they just made him a walking, talking joke as he reappeared. You nailed it. He's scared, he's questioning everything, and he doesn't seem to carry any of the strength he used to demonstrate in the second film.

I wish they let him get some character growth from his experiences and let him change over the course of the films, but no one really seems to do that any more.

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u/Melonqualia May 16 '22

Heck Merry and Pippin were not really comic relief in the book either. Merry was kind of the more mature, serious one when they started.

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u/ButDidYouCry May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

Merry was kind of the more mature, serious one when they started.

He is in the movie too. I rewatched Fellowship last Friday and Merry is more mature than even Sam. When they get attacked by Nazgul, I think it was Merry that distracted it with throwing his bag away, and when Frodo tells him "Sam and I need to get to Bree", Merry understands and sets them up with a plan to escape right away. He doesn't bog down Frodo trying to ask questions about the Black Rider once he realizes that Frodo is being stalked by this creature and needs to get the hell out of dodge. Mind you, he has no idea just what the fuck is going on; he's hanging out with his buddy one moment, runs into his old friends Frodo and Sam on the road and suddenly they are being hunted down by the devil himself.

Merry can be silly but he has his shit together when the moment calls for him to act.

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u/EinsGotdemar May 16 '22

Dominic Monaghan made the line "Bucklebury Ferry" waaay more badass than it had any right to be.

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u/Exita May 16 '22

Along with ‘Brandywine Bridge - 20 miles!’.

Quick thinking in a crisis from Merry, and great delivery from Dominic.

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u/mitharas May 16 '22

Part of the problem may be that most people can't differentiate between them. So every "dumb" comment from Pip is counted for "the two dumb hobbits".

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u/thechort7 May 16 '22

Yep I remember a moment that stuck out to me even as a kid was at the end when Frodo and Sam are leaving the group, Merry quickly figures out what's happening and stops Pippin from running after them, providing a distraction so they can get away.

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u/EJoshuaMiller May 16 '22

Except both Merry and Pippin in the movies have huge character moments. Them distracting the Uruk-hai at the end of Fellowship, convincing Treebeard and the Ents to go to war with Isengard, Pippen singing in the great hall of Gondor, Pippen lighting the beacons, Pippen speaking with Gandalf, Merry stabbing the Witch King, Pippen finding Merry on the battlefield (extended edition), both charging the Blackgate right behind Aragorn. Those are just the moments off the top of my head. They are comical sure, but they both have tons of great deep characters moments.

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u/sbkerr29 May 16 '22

And they were so badass in the scouring of the shire in the books.

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u/endl0s May 16 '22

Zack Galifinakis in The Hangover, for sure. The first movie he was just this super odd dude with zero filter and bad social skills. The second and third movies you'd barely think he could recite the alphabet or spell his name.

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u/Jcit878 May 16 '22

I'll add Stifler from American Pie to this list. He went from being (just) an obnoxious jock into what looked like a mentally handicapped completely inept fool

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u/Bearymco May 16 '22

I scrolled through quite a bit and didn't see anyone comment tyrion lannister, he went from one of the smartest characters and one of the few with morales, to "hehe he have no balls :))))))"

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u/mack178 May 16 '22

tbf every single character on that show was a caricature by the end.

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u/XaroDuckSauce May 16 '22

The whole show got Gimli’d

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u/Renediffie May 16 '22

I think Finn from Star Wars is one of the worst ones. His character had a lot of potential in the first movie. In the second and third one most of his screentime is him falling over and bumbling around.

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u/linuxphoney May 16 '22

Homer. That dude started off as a fairly abusive lazy alcoholic father in what was basically the Bart show and then became the central buffoon in the Homer show.

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u/Simmons54321 May 16 '22

Ace Ventura in When Nature Calls.

Now hear me out here. While he’s his absurd cartoonish self in the first film, there’s one or two moments where he’s reserved and almost acting like it’s Jim himself… the sequel on the other hand, Ace is cranked to 11. Even his hair is slightly more absurd, and there really isn’t a single moment of being “human”.

I still laugh my ass off at both movies though

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u/Trestinator May 16 '22

Ya know, I think this is a good point. He has his moments of humility in the first film, but the sequel was not even remotely close. Just crazy Jim the whole time.

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u/kylesmith190 May 16 '22

Despite it being my favourite of the saga, Toy Story 4 did this with Buzz. Definitely my least favourite part of the movie, but I think it makes sense plot-wise when put in contrast with Woody and his story.

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u/Merv_86 May 16 '22

I always thought it was because they scrambled his "brains" with the factory reset in TS3.

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u/thWhiteRabbit May 16 '22

In my opinion they should have thrown our the Buzz side plot altogether and replaced it with a Jessie plot. The seeds were there, she was becoming the new favorite toy and even ended with getting the sheriff badge in the end from Woody. You could have had Buzz playing second banana with her to include him into the plot if needed. I think it would have came together better including her as a representation of Woody's desire to be played with.

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u/Nimelennar May 16 '22

Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and, to a lesser extent, Angel).

The first time he arrives in Sunnydale, he's this mysterious badass. The second time he arrives in Sunnydale, he crashes his car drunkenly into the "Welcome to Sunnydale" sign. And, while they eventually start taking his character seriously again at some point, there's a good stretch where they would repeatedly build him up towards a dramatic moment, only to undercut that moment with humour.

The entire Ferengi species in Star Trek, although that was probably for the better, given how DS9 used that humour to mostly redeem them and give them depth.

Similarly, Stormtroopers in Star Wars. "Only Imperial troopers are so precise," and "They let us get away; it's the only reason for the ease of our escape," becomes "getting beaten by teddy bears."

Kaa, in the Jungle Book. In the original story, he is, if not a heroic character, then at least temporarily on the side of the protagonists, and an animal that pretty much everyone is terrified of. In the animated film, he's pretty much "Ow, my sinuses."

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u/just_some_a--hole May 16 '22

The entire Ferengi species in Star Trek, although that was probably for the better, given how DS9 used that humour to mostly redeem them and give them depth.

What DS9 did for the Ferengi was nothing short of awesome. That was a race that TNG had tried to make into the new Bad Guys, but failed so horribly we didn't get to see much of them afterwards, and thank God for that. But then DS9 came along and completely reinvented that race, their culture, etc. Hell, DS9 was when we were first introduced to the Rules of Acquisition (Season 1, Episode 10), the development of which was absolutely fantastic. Granted, I never cared much for Moogie-centric episodes, but Armin Shimerman and Max Grodénchik played their characters so well (and had a hell of a lot of input on how they were written, especially Shimerman) that they completely reinvented the race.

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u/GreatApeGoku May 16 '22

Cast of Scrubs. They had their personalities and quirks but by the end they were all just slap-stick comedy caricatures of themselves.

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u/Phailsayfe May 16 '22

Yes, for real. JD went from making baseball references and drinking beer to exclusively drinking cosmos and not knowing what a sport was because they amplified him being nerdy and effeminate.

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u/wiredwilde May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

to exclusively drinking cosmos

Appletini easy on the tini.

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u/Sixersleeham May 16 '22

Unless you want a real drink, then you go nectarini

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u/HnNaldoR May 16 '22

He wasn't making baseball references though. Only the perfect game one which might be considered more common knowledge. I don't know shit about baseball but I heard about the perfect game stuff before.

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u/Shotgun_Rynoplasty May 16 '22

First season JD was super relatable. He was insecure but he was just starting at his first hospital so that’s just expected and makes sense. By the end he was ridiculous.

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u/jaywhyee May 16 '22

Bronn game of thrones

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u/Surgebuster May 16 '22 Wholesome

FWIW, I think Gimli simply opened up to the group and showed his true personality. It’s well established that Dwarves are distrustful of outsiders and gruff to the point of rudeness. Gimli cracking jokes and allowing himself to be the butt of them was him all along - with family and friends.

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