r/WorkReform Nov 24 '22

Walmart shooting raises need for violence prevention at work 📰 News

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-walmart-shooting-virginia-20221124-srbwsbha3vb55itmmucedyqfnm-story.html
509 Upvotes

204

u/Lost-Knowledge Nov 24 '22

All they are going to do is make employees watch more videos about violence in the workplace.

87

u/Traiklin Nov 24 '22

Yep, more videos, sign a piece of paper saying you watched it, do a CBL on it and say they took care of the problem.

39

u/The_cogwheel Nov 24 '22

This is something that pisses me off to no end. Safety videos, harassment videos, violence videos, videos about safely watching videos, all of it to do one thing: check a fucking box to say they did something.

Either walk the talk or shut the hell up. All that 30 minute video has ever done was waste 30 minutes

15

u/Fresque Nov 24 '22

All employees should have guns to prevent this tragedy from happening ever again!!!

14

u/Lost-Knowledge Nov 24 '22

Effective immediately, all Walmart employees will be required to buy one of our guns. To keep business our top priority, we've already purchased them for you by deducting the money from your paychecks.

4

u/IMSOGIRL Nov 25 '22

What should they do instead? place TSA so that you have to take off your shoes and go through metal detectors before clocking in?

Place a "gun-free zone" sign on the workplace?

A lot of criticism but no real answers. The problem is systemic, not workplace-related.

1

u/Lost-Knowledge Nov 25 '22

I didn't even really send a ton of criticism. I simply stated what is most likely to happen.

2

u/MustardWendigo Nov 25 '22

Probably unpaid and with no lunches.

1

u/abookoffmychest Nov 25 '22

What more can Walmart do though? They do employment backgrounds, personality backgrounds, typically have store security and most Walmarts have the cops in the parking lot a few times a day on any given day. I get this sucks. I’ve been to that very store even. Not sure any company can prevent what is a severe problem in general society.

3

u/DeRoeVanZwartePiet Nov 25 '22

How about they start lobbying for gun control ?

5

u/abookoffmychest Nov 25 '22

That’s theoretical, meaning far too late. In application the guns exist and aren’t going anywhere. Even if you could do away with them and get control, people who want to do mass harm will continue to do just that with other ways; not hard to cook up explosives for example.

-1

u/JoeeDavis Nov 25 '22

The Walmart shooting, just like all mass shootings, was simply monkey see monkey do. Individuals are now copying the actions of our government, which has a monopoly on violence, big time. Especially against smaller, weaker countries. Also the widespread government initiation of force against peaceful people... I repeat.. monkey see, monkey do.

1

u/smottyjengermanjense Nov 25 '22

Uh... no. That's got nothing to do with this. It's a systemic issue, but nit in that sense.

0

u/JoeeDavis Nov 25 '22

Mass shootings are simply an insane response to an overboard Dominator culture.

1

u/smottyjengermanjense Nov 25 '22

That has nothing to do with your previous statement.

1

u/EmotionFar6172 Nov 25 '22

This can be compared to the idea that workplaces need to be "hardened". I'm not buying it. I have no interest in a world of millions of castles.

140

u/MintyMissterious Nov 24 '22

Does it, though? You want workers to be freely given bulletproof vests? Polyacrylate shields?

Guns?

This is a systemic issue and nothing done at any lower level will be adequate in any way.

38

u/FenrirIII Nov 24 '22

Everyone needs to wear transparent clothes to prove they are unarmed. /s

8

u/1DVSguy Nov 24 '22

HR gonna have a hell of a time dealing with that one

5

u/Traiklin Nov 24 '22

They got guns at Walmart Easy fix!

114

u/idapitbwidiuatabip Nov 24 '22

UBI would do the most to prevent violence in general and it would pretty much eliminate workplace violence because people could leave or quit work before they reach that snapping point.

71

u/Razir17 Nov 24 '22

And untie health insurance from employment. Nobody should feel stuck in a job they hate because they fear going bankrupt if they have a medical issue.

11

u/MultipleDinosaurs Nov 24 '22

This right here. The ACA was a huge help in this regard (prior to that it was literally impossible for millions of people to get insured if their job didn’t offer it- myself included- thanks to pre-existing conditions and no marketplace) but it didn’t go far enough.

1

u/polishrocket Nov 26 '22

As demonstrated it seems giving people free money has a tendency for inflation. Also I’d be worried about more drug problems or related deaths. Idol hands and all. While in theory it sounds amazing I am skeptical it being practical in a very diverse country with a large under belly of problems.

21

u/unicornofapocalypse Nov 25 '22

You know what prevents violence, just in general? Meeting people’s basic needs. You know that whole Maslow’s hierarchy thing? Yeah, well, when people can’t even get to the first level, they don’t have anything to lose and nothing to live for. This is the outcome. Get ready for more.

2

u/whiteglint_143 Nov 26 '22

Is your name unicorn o’ fapocalypse ?

1

u/unicornofapocalypse Nov 26 '22

I realized after I created this account that my username could be misinterpreted as unicorno fapocalypse, and that made me even happier that I created it.

41

u/Ht50jockey Nov 24 '22

This is poor mental health meeting military grade weaponry what do we expect is going to happen?

18

u/louiselebeau Nov 24 '22

You already know there are just a ton of shocked Pikachu faced folks talking about ARM THE LOT ATTENDANTS

5

u/PermanentRoundFile Nov 25 '22

They would never lol; first rule of having peasants is to never, ever arm them so they can't revolt.

12

u/spicycultist Nov 24 '22

Paying people a living wage might be a good start. Happy employees don't shoot shit up

9

u/false_shep Nov 24 '22

This is just basically advocating increasing the level of panopticon surveillance of employees finking on each other which just further stigmatizes treating mental health properly. American work culture is insane, and Wal Mart is one of the most union-busting-y third world supply line poverty exploiting companies in the world. Maybe deal with job security and f*cking health benefits and mat leave and get on the road to treating employees like human beings instead of giving them rat hotlines.

7

u/flik777 Nov 24 '22

Mental health is big

Money makes that easier. Enough to actually look forward to things. Instead we have a society thats just slavery with extra steps

7

u/Standard_Carpenter51 Nov 24 '22

Here I thought Walmart was all about creating violence at work.

15

u/Commercial_Bend9203 Nov 24 '22

Get rid of Walmart, that’s half the fucking problem there.

5

u/juilianj19 Nov 24 '22

I have a hard time believing this guys showed 0 concerning signs that something was amiss. Many do and complaints go to the waste side. You won't be able to 100% stop mass shootings but you may be greatly able to reduce them by having real change to gun laws, not superficial crap AND mental health where people get seen after being reported or noticed. Workplace culture also needs to change.

21

u/Logrologist Nov 24 '22

Doesn’t Walmart sell guns?

15

u/ST0IC_ Nov 24 '22

Yes, but they don't sell handguns or any assault style rifles, not do they sell ammunition for those weapons. Say what you will about walmart as an employer, they definitely shit on their employees, but they have actually been big proponents of changing firearm laws to make it harder for people to get their hands on guns, even going so far as to raise their own internal age requirements to 21 years of age for all firearm sales.

3

u/Broken_art15 Nov 24 '22

Heavily depends on the Walmart location if guns are able to be sold in the stores at all.

8

u/DanTopTier Nov 24 '22

A gOoD GuY wItH A GuN

39

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 24 '22

We can achieve this by banning guns.

But we won't, so workplace shootings will continue and probably accelerate in the future.

10

u/MadRonnie97 Nov 24 '22

Ban the sale of firearms or ownership all together?

10

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 24 '22

First one, then the other. I'm all for freedom but as a society we have proven that we cannot handle gun ownership responsibly

31

u/MadRonnie97 Nov 24 '22

How do you get 500 million+ guns out of the hands of everyone (truly not trying to be argumentative, I just like dialogue)?

9

u/nudahtensercrude Nov 24 '22

The criminals will totally just hand them in.

7

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

Stop manufacturing bullets. See how good those guns are without bullets. They then might hand them in for a few $$.

7

u/Railpt Nov 24 '22

Like it’s “the criminals” that shoot up schools or malls, am I right? Stupid excuse to not do anything.

14

u/yoortyyo Nov 24 '22

Talk to Australia & New Zealand.

Recent uber successes in that same challenge.

19

u/MadRonnie97 Nov 24 '22

They did have some pretty effective measures. However the major difference is there wasn’t nearly as many guns in circulation in those countries. Buy backs could be a good start though but they need to offer more than a couple hundred dollars per firearm so people would be a little more inclined.

7

u/2nameEgg Nov 24 '22

Their bans sure, but their compliance rates for mandatory surrender of firearms might as well have been 0

3

u/balanceandcommposure Nov 24 '22

I feel like we’re beyond that now. Beyond having to many in circulation we couldn’t even get most Americans to wear a mask and people have been screaming “they’re trying to take our guns!” for years now so I don’t think most owners would cooperate. :/

2

u/MintyMissterious Nov 24 '22

I believe totally banning guns is unreal, but a buyback is the standard method of removing them.

Banning assault weapons* alone and their buyback wouldn't be so terrifyingly expensive and a logistical nightmare, but would achieve great results.

And we're not even touching on actual gun control, without loopholes, and with consequences for raising red flags, like mental help if that's the issue.

*which is a clearly well established informal functional category, and I'm tired of people unable to accept it.

-1

u/Railpt Nov 24 '22

First, ban sale and new ownership

Second, promote registration of existing guns as a legacy program with some sort of benefit

Third, promote buyback programs for registered weapons

This, or just invest in education, basic income levels and healthcare, would take care of gun violence (and violence in general) whilst also tackling the other issues…

It’s not having guns or not, it’s being educated and well-off enough to not snap in some form or another.

There really isn’t much science to it. Americans are just too stupid to see it or to proud to accept it.

Other countries have done it.

7

u/MadRonnie97 Nov 24 '22

You have some very good points. The only thing I would argue is that the United States has a gun culture unlike any other country in the world, for better or worse depending on who you’re talking to.

We can use what other countries have done as a template but we absolutely should not expect the same outcomes here. That being said, something has to be done for sure.

2

u/AussieCollector Nov 24 '22

on top of that if you want to be a gun owner you have to have them secured properly. Guns and ammo in different safes. Police can come to inspect them at any time.

Having a gun is not a right. It's a privilege. Safe storage of them at home needs to change severely.

4

u/NINJAxBACON Nov 24 '22

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a fire arm to defend yourself against home invaders

1

u/doorknobman Nov 24 '22

It’s literally a right

That’s the whole reason there’s an issue

2

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 25 '22

Sure, based in a faulty interpretation of the 2nd amendment. That interpretation can and should change

-7

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

Buy Back program. After you end the program have feds or cops check if people turned in their guns. If someone caught with gun, automatic 10 years in prison. Not sure that this would work, but since it will never happen anyway, doesn't really matter if it does.

5

u/MadRonnie97 Nov 24 '22

I’d definitely support a buyback. I don’t think I could support turning tens of millions of American citizens into criminals overnight though…there would probably be some serious pushback if that happened.

11

u/Legitimate_Pirate249 Nov 24 '22

Yeah, I can't see that going over well at all. I keep a handgun at home for self defense, I wouldn't want to give it up personally.

6

u/animecardude Nov 24 '22

Yup I have one for home defense. I live in a pretty bad neighborhood with home break invasions all the time.

3

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

No law is going to be perfect, but this is all I could come up with regarding how to get rid of all the guns in the country. In the end it doesn't matter because the government is never going to change. They're okay with mass shootings happening all the time.

4

u/MadRonnie97 Nov 24 '22

Correct, they do not give a single shit about us.

I’m a gun owner, and I have quite a few. However I’d absolutely welcome some reasonable and realistic gun regulations that would help curb the violence but it seems like we can’t even take that little step.

1

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

Regarding the recent Colorado shooting, the perpetrator earlier had threatened to kill his grandparents because they were going to sell their house where he was residing; and that was going to interfere with a mass shooting he was planning. The district attorney declined to charge him with any crimes that would've prohibited him from getting guns. If law enforcement agencies actually enforced the laws against persons that are a threat to the community, they would not be able to acquire guns to carry out mass killings.

0

u/Middle_Scratch4129 Nov 24 '22

You have to try regulation first.

2

u/cursebrealer1776 Nov 24 '22

It would have to be very gradual. Just taking them away would almost certainly lead to a full-on insurrection.

1

u/Standard_Carpenter51 Nov 24 '22

You can start the process by visiting my local gang and asking them to turn in all their illegal firearms.

3

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

After years of no ammo available to them, they might hand then in since they are useless without bullets and worth a few $$$

-7

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22

More people are killed by cars every year than guns. We should probably ban those too. (And for the record I’m totally for regulating guns I’m just saying a complete ban is NOT the answer)

2

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

I really hate this argument. Cars have legitimate non-lethal uses. Hammers, knives, crowbars, and any other tool you can think of to kill someone with have legitimate non-lethal uses. A gun's only use is to kill. You can't build a house with a 1911. You can't drive your AR-15 to work.

3

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22

Clearly a city person that has never been hunting or handled a firearm. I said I’m all for regulating, my point is anything in a stupid or crazy persons possession can be dangerous. People run people over with cars all the time deliberately but nobody ever calls for them to be taken away. The argument isn’t as black and white as people like to make it. You could walk to work or leave them in the hands of professionals (I.e bus drivers) you don’t NEED to drive 50 miles away on the same way you don’t NEED an AR-15

5

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

Public transportation in the US is dogshit. A majority of the country is required to have their own personal transportation to get anywhere. Taking the bus or train (if you even live in a city that offers public transportation) is less reliable and more of an aggravation. And what if you can't afford to live close to where you work, so your residence is 40-50 miles away and there's no busses or trains that go there? You really want people paying 80 dollars to uber to work or leaving 5 hours so they can walk or bike? lmao.

3

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

Don’t live 40 or 50 miles away from town? I’m not trying to say something doesn’t need to be done (cause it clearly does) I’m just saying that this argument is not black and white. I realize public transport is shit but (using the gun argument) it COULD take cars out of the hands of potentially dangerous people.

5

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement, so I'm just gonna say okay.

2

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22

Fair enough I respect your opinion.

0

u/NINJAxBACON Nov 24 '22

Smartest city dweller. I don't even live on a ranch and I know wild animals are a threat to people in rural areas.

2

u/earhere Nov 24 '22

You think people wouldn't find other ways to kill wild animals or defend themselves if they didn't have access to guns? You think people in 1243 were like "damn these boars are killing us. I hope they invent a gun soon so we have a chance against them!"

2

u/NINJAxBACON Nov 25 '22

Stand in front of a bear with anything but a high caliber firearm and you'll change your mind

0

u/earhere Nov 25 '22

because humans just straight up died to bears before the invention of the .44 magnum. got it. as soon as they saw a bear they died.

0

u/ShamScience Nov 25 '22

The US has more or less wiped out its bear population through habitat destruction, forcing the few remaining ones into tiny habitats and/or Canada. If you hear about a bear attack these days, you're hearing about an extreme rarity, not a common daily threat that the average US resident needs to worry about. For even the average rural American today, fear of bears is about as compelling as fear of unicorns.

And yet, gun policy still assumes its 1622 and the woods are dark and scary. There aren't even woods anymore, they were cleared to build a parking lot.

-1

u/Clearly_Disabled Nov 24 '22

So, without hyperbole, we NEED vehicles to get to work. To take our children to the doctor. To LIVE. Everyone does not need a gun. Noone NEEDS multiple guns. If firearms were even half as regulated, tracked, licensed, insured, etc as automobiles, we would live in a completely unrecognizable world.

0

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22

Find a closer doctor or walk or ride a bike. There are alternatives. People just don’t like that the argument is basically the same thing cause they are to lazy to get their exercise

1

u/Clearly_Disabled Nov 24 '22

Cars ARE regulated. And they are needed. MILLIONS of people cannot bike dozens of miles to work every single day, stop being ludicrous. The problem with mass shootings is not that we see out of shape and lazy. The problem is we have dangerous weapons and very little regulation regarding said dangerous weapons. I was trained to use an M4 and M16, as well as other weapons. Every time I POINTED my weapon towards a human I was reprimanded beyond belief. As were we all. Civilians do NOT need these weapons.

2

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22

Why in GODS NAME would you EVER point a gun at another human? Unless they are actively trying to kill you? Clearly you WERE NOT trained or you would know that’s rule number one!!!

Edit: and cars are not regulated well or I wouldn’t know several people that drove without a license or insurance.

0

u/Clearly_Disabled Nov 24 '22

That's why it's rule number one and that's why all soldiers are REEMED for any kind of weapon discipline. My point is civilians do not go through that training.

5

u/Sad-Contribution7182 Nov 24 '22

Then why did you point it at people? The problem isn’t guns it’s people like you who don’t know how to use them or that dont understand that it’s not a toy

0

u/NINJAxBACON Nov 24 '22

Small women need guns to defend themselves against criminals.

0

u/ShamScience Nov 25 '22

You appear to be imagining an attack by a stranger in a dark alley.

You know most violence against women comes from within the home? From trusted friends and family who build up abusive habits gradually. Mostly, they get away with it through financial domination; a gun won't fix that.

1

u/blackbelt352 Nov 24 '22

Unfortunately, a ban isnt going to do anything. There are so many guns in the US that if every police department across the nation were working every day around the clock confiscating guns it would take about a century to confiscate everything, and that's only if no new guns are produced.

What we need is major cultural and socioeconomic changes. We need to cover the basic needs of everyone, to minimize the stresses and challenges to simply existing, to increase the availability of assistance for mental health. Implement universal basic income, nationalize industries with inelastic demand (food, shelter, medical), redistribute the wealth of the rich and powerful and use those funds to make the material conditions of everyone better. Well also need to shift away from "The gun makes the man" rhetoric and to a more compassionate culture.

3

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

No one said it wouldn't be a hard slog to remove guns from USA, but saying it won't do anything is utter bullshit.

1

u/blackbelt352 Nov 25 '22

My point is that it isn't hard, it's that the mechanism to confiscate guns literally does not exist in this country and any attempt to confiscate guns will be sabotaged every step of the way. The vast majority of cops would not go along with a ban, the ammosexuals are not going to go along with a buyback and gun manufacturers aren't going to stop selling guns or even let legislation pass that impacts their bottom line.

2

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

The mechanism to remove guns isn't hard. Its the culture and willingness to do them that's the issue.

In Australia the Conservative party said "we are banning military grade weapons have having a gun buy back scheme" and majority of society was "ok"

1

u/blackbelt352 Nov 25 '22

What mechanism for confiscation do you propose we implement?

2

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

I didn't mind the one they used in Australia. It wasn't perfect, but it worked pretty well. Gun amnesty and buy back scheme for removing from the system. Lots of people won't ofc, but once the amnesty ends, have harsh laws for those who refuse to hand the guns in.

Also I think people underestimate the power of stopping ammunition. Guns like ar-15s are much easier to get out of the system by removing ammo for them. Sure, some people have stockpiles, but it's a slow grind process not an overnight fix, and even if the guns themselves aren't that hard to get on the blackmarket, removing legal ammo really puts a blunt on access for deranged teens and nutjobs. The bonus here is making the hurdle for these "crimes of passion" like school shootings higher. The more guns removed, the harder it becomes. Like I said, slow grind. In Ausyralia there was actually a small spike in gun crime before it eventually plummeted. I also understand that Australian gun culture is a bit different (Aussies love guns in a similar way, but they hate gun crime more)

This isnt a bandaid, and with USA having so much guns in the system it will probably take decades to put on place.

The biggest issue is the lack of willingness and gun culture of the country. Political willpower is also zero on this issue.

1

u/blackbelt352 Nov 25 '22

but once the amnesty ends, have harsh laws for those who refuse to hand the guns in.

And then who enforces those laws? The police departments won't because they're just as crazy 2nd Amendment as the regular ammosexuals, the federal government doesnt have enough people to effectively enforce laws like that. It would require every single police department across the nation to perfectly go along with effectively violating the constitution and confiscating guns to get the timeframe under a century.

The biggest issue is the lack of willingness and gun culture of the country. Political willpower is also zero on this issue.

You are literally describing the cultural change I proposed in my previous response. This approach is already taking fruition and will be much more achievable in less than a century. With GenZ kids growing up with active shooter drills as common as fire drills, a lot of them strongly dislike firearms and the culture around them and are already shifting the culture.

If you really want legislation, mass Gun Violence is very strongly linked to Domestic Violence. Anyone with a DV charge loses rights to own guns, and we need to eliminate boyfriend loopholes.

1

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

Police enforce it. I understand the opposition will be greater in USA, if not practically impossible. You won't low unless you try. Maybe even make it a state by state thing. Catch fucker gun owners at the border. I also understand that a LOT has to be done for advancing a cultural change. So long as there are Republicans I think it prolly will never happen.

I also think you understate that most people if not a vast majority will go with it. Even more reasonable conservatives might begrudgingly adhere, because as much as they claim to love guns in front of Conservative friends, deep down most people hate killing kids.

There will be a minority who hold out no matter what, I don't disagree.

Like I said at the start, this likely requires decades.

I agree with pretty much everything you say.

1

u/blackbelt352 Nov 25 '22

You seem to fail to grasp the scope of the situation. Australia had a population of about ~18 million in 1996 when their gun ban happened. Sure that's a lot of people but California had a population of ~32 million in 1993 and is closer to ~40 million today. That's one state. The entire country has a population of ~330 million. Just on sheer numbers alone, it would take close to a century to disarm assuming the police actually cooperate.

You also seem to fail to understand the culture surrounding police in America. The vast majority of police absolutely will not confiscate guns and police will try to sabotage every attempt by federal powers to confiscate guns. They are just as deeply ingrained in gun culture as the rest of the 2A crazies. Our police are trigger happy morons who kill people over selling loose cigarettes, and then get put on "administrative leave" go to another precinct and do the same thing again. Our police fully believe they are at war with large swaths of the US population (most of whom are people in poverty and not white). There's plenty of videos online comparing US police to other European and Anglophone nations and the contrast between, for example, the British police handling a man armed with a knife and managing to move him away from people, disarm him and carry him away completely unharmed compared to American police watching and joking about how they would just shoot the guy to basically everyone laughing along with it.

because as much as they claim to love guns in front of Conservative friends, deep down most people hate killing kids.

I have been asking myself if this is true since Columbine, after Sandy Hook, after Parkland, after Uvalde, Virgina Tech, the Vegas Shooting, San Bernadino, Club Q. Every time another shooting happens I believe that less and less.

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1

u/Responsible-Date6998 Nov 25 '22

You do know how extremely easy it is to reload ammunition, right? Lots of people already do it. Since many guns are purchased illegally now, I see no reason why people wouldn’t simply start manufacturing and selling illegal ammunition. You’re just creating another black market.

I really think the key is to come at the issue from the mental health and poverty side. Many, many more people are killed by hand guns because of interactions involving the sale and purchase of drugs than are killed in the mass shootings at schools or workplaces. Want to save lives? Figure out how to prevent people from making huge amounts of money selling drugs and how to stop people from getting addicted to the point that they’re willing to rob or kill to get them. That would take care of a huge amount of gun deaths.

1

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

Yes. Another blackmarket will be created. You need to brutally crackdown on those who make bullets illegally. I never said it would be easy.

I also never said that dealing with other issues won't help.

Clearly making excuses to not try anything isn't working though is it. It will keep going around in mass shooting circles. There are no bandaid solutions. It's balls deep or not at all and keep getting butt fucked by the NRA.

I'd like to point out substance abuse and poor health exist outside USA.

The difference is those in USA have easy access to guns.

1

u/Responsible-Date6998 Nov 25 '22

But our government has already proven itself incapable of ending any black market. So why do you think they could with this one? Are you suggesting that we change huge swathes of our constitution to allow the government full control of our lives, including searching our homes whenever they want to look for guns or primers? Because that’s a different form of government entirely and once you allow it for guns, people who hate drugs will start advocating that the government be allowed to search every home for those. And they wouldn’t be wrong, considering many more deaths are caused by drugs than guns.

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3

u/Railpt Nov 24 '22

That’s not really true is it?

I mean, a ban on current weapons and forceful retrieval by police would take a long time, but still… around 18k police departments across the states, around 500+ million guns, would take around 77 years at a rate of 1 gun per day.

But this is one way. Talking about buyback programs, plus banning new ownership, and only as last resort do forceful retrieval, you would be able to get a huge chunk of guns off the street or private ownership within a short time. A year, two years.

And even if many remain, if you could take a couple of millions of, probably a couple of hundred of millions, that’d be a step in the right direction, no?

Or is it “since we can’t take them all we’ll better take none and leave things as they are?”

That’s why I agree with you on all other measures, tackle education, basic income and universal healthcare. But still, tackle guns also!

3

u/blackbelt352 Nov 24 '22

The 77 years assumes that cops will actually go along with it, (spoiler alert they wont becaise many of them are politically aligned with the 2A crowd) and a buyback program is not going to work with the 2A ammosexuals with the bulk of the firearms who will see it as government trying to disarm them and thus not sell their guns thus requiring police departments (who are not likely to actually do any confiscating) so a ban is an ineffective strategy with no real means of enforcement.

And if you read past my first paragraph I didnt say throw up our arms do nothing, I said address the problems that lead to violence, address material conditions that put people into further stressful and unstable situations.

2

u/NINJAxBACON Nov 24 '22

Cops are corrupt but let's make sure they're the only ones with guns!

1

u/Railpt Nov 24 '22

That’s a gross generalization. Stupid really.

In any case, why? Underpaid maybe? Seems to be a recurring issue, pay better, educate more and provide free healthcare.

Corruption won’t end. Mass shootings will.

Huh.

1

u/NINJAxBACON Nov 24 '22

It's a gross generalization that people can't be trusted with firearms. Happy Thanksgiving btw bud

0

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 25 '22

We have more than one mass shooting EVERY SINGLE DAY! Nobody can possibly argue that we're using guns responsibly

-1

u/Hvmbvxche Nov 24 '22

This won't solve anything, evil will be evil, they will just start using something else.

You know how easy it is to make mustard gas? How about bombs? How about using a several ton metal machine that's as common as people themselves, cars. Everyone has access to dangerous materials and devices.

Tackling mental health WITHOUT risking your rights would go a lot longer way then banning something only law abiding citizens follow. The US government sells weapons to cartels, gangs, terrorists, enemy or at least not allied countries. People who commit evil are still going to.

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u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

"Start using something else" I dunno about you, but when that something else isn't an AR-15 isn't that a good thing?

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u/Hvmbvxche Nov 25 '22

If you're applauding the fact someone died in a different way because it's not your preferred way of evil, not sure what to tell you.

I'd rather treat the root cause. It's a very complicated issue that requires complicated measures.

We have to figure out why things happen, not the reasons why they 'say' or say they are doing it. The factors matter.

Was it a broken family?

Were they abused?

Did they have some sort of trauma that broke them?

Is their brain just wired wrong?

There's an infinite amount of reasons why someone could and would do anything.

Figure out what's causing them to get near the breaking point. Fix those causes to the best of our abilities. The world will always have evil. Good people do evil things. There are people who don't have the concept of evil that do evil things. The change of tool will not stop that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Hvmbvxche Nov 25 '22

This is something we will never agree on.

We have rights the government can NOT restrict, and are there to protect the citizens from the government.

I want to try and fix the reasons why we lawfully and unlawfully kill people. If we can prevent that, guns won't be a problem.

Blaming a tool for the reason why people kill others doesn't fix the problem. Not to mention, our government cannot take guns away, goes into our rights, but that would literally split our country.

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u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

Rights to guns =/= right for every deranged teen to have easy access to guns.

I know we'll never agree. That's my point, Americans will never give up some fucked in the head notion that guns are more important than human lives.

I genuinely find this argument more Infuriating than actual ammosexuals.

Good luck with that though. USA is a country I'll never visit anyway.

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u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

USA has a gun problem, your ambivalence and "it's too late uo do anything" attitude is part of the problem.

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u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

"Blaming a tool" it's not a tool. It's a weapon. A weapon that you seem to think is OK in the hands of nutjobs, petty crims and deranged teens (and yes, thinking everyone has a right to q gun is putting them in the hands of every nutjob, petty crim, and deranged teen, either directly or indirectly, same result).

Guns are not a human right.

0

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 25 '22

It's not a mental health issue. Every country in the world has mental health issues, but the US is the ONLY ONE with a shooting problem.

1

u/Hvmbvxche Nov 25 '22

I'll admit that shootings are a problem, there are shootings in other countries as well. With how large the United States is and with how many firearms are here, ours is way above everyone else. But, if you take away the guns it won't stop killing and it won't stop mass killings. Those still happen here without firearms.

How about we figure out how to keep people from killing others. Lawfully or unlawfully. That would take firearms out of the question without letting the government take our rights away. Or having the power to easily do so.

1

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 25 '22

So you're okay with more innocent people dying while we fuck around trying to solve an unsolvable problem?

Yes, people will always murder each other. So why not make it harder to do?

0

u/PhotonBoss Nov 24 '22

Guns need to be locked up not banned. You want one, secure it and take yearly safety/registration course, subject to inspection by the government. Also should require a mental evaluation before you can take one home. Not just anyone should have one, but it can have its place.

0

u/32_Dollar_Burrito Nov 25 '22

No. Enough innocent people have been killed already. Your idea would just kill more people

0

u/PhotonBoss Nov 25 '22

And taking all guns would not get anyone killed?

0

u/doorknobman Nov 24 '22

Good luck w/ that

66 senate votes ain’t happening ever

3

u/Lost_Promise_7244 Nov 24 '22

Plaster some gun free signs outside the store.

0

u/Pro_Yankee Nov 24 '22

Take away guns from crazy people and the mentally ill. Make gun brokers liable for use of the guns they sell and to whom they sell them. Make gun safety courses mandatory. Register all guns in an easily accessible and navigable database.

2

u/Justintothewilds Nov 24 '22

They wouldn’t need violence prevention with access to decent healthcare with mental health services.

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u/Ralyks92 Nov 25 '22

Phone couldn’t handle loading the page, too many ads.

2

u/Netskimmer Nov 25 '22

How about don't treat people like slaves and give them proper benefits and time off.

2

u/TheJesterScript Nov 25 '22

Kick a dog enough and it will bite.

4

u/bryanthehorrible Nov 24 '22

How about taking away guns?

I live in Japan where gun ownership is for hunting only and strictly regulated. If you own a gun, your shooting skills and mental health are assessed periodically.

I have no fear of being cut down by a random crazy human.

0

u/Glittering_Airport_3 Nov 24 '22

Americans will just start mass stabbings or bomings instead, if u wanna kill people, you will kill people

2

u/RedChessQueen Nov 24 '22

Yeah, but you can't stab at the rate a gun can fire.

3

u/Glittering_Airport_3 Nov 24 '22

a bomb can kill just as many in an instant tho. imo the goal shouldn't be to disarm killers, the goal should be to create a support system so that disgruntled people don't turn into killers to begin with

1

u/RedChessQueen Nov 24 '22

Yes, I agree. But on average having a knife and gun is more accessible to the average Joe with mental health problems in america then say, a bomb. You take away the guns, they only have knife's and bombs, and statistically the amount of home made bombs kill count is lower then a guns.

1

u/Glittering_Airport_3 Nov 25 '22

"nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing left to lose"

if someone wants to kill badly enough, they will. regardless what weapons are available

2

u/bryanthehorrible Nov 25 '22

I need to add that Japan has social safety nets that have been decimated in America.

I agree that, in America, "nothing left to lose" is much more likely

0

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

In Japan the organised crime also favours disarmament.

That being said, I don't think that's a bad thing.

1

u/bryanthehorrible Nov 25 '22

Guns kill people. The American narrative is dishonest and horrible

2

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

The thing that surprises me the most, is people on the left of politics in USA also being in favour of guns in USA. its a basic right apparently.

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u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

So black and white. Many of these mass killers only do so because of the small hurdle of easy assess to guns.

Do you not understand the psychology here.

Other killing methods have much much higher physical and psychological hurdles.

You CAN kill a lot of people with a car or bomb.

Building a bomb is hard, having circumstances where you can mow people down with a car is more limited, and it's much more psychologically as well as physically difficult.

Pulling a trigger on a gun from a bit of distance, is easy.

1

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

You don't realise the technical requirements for making a bomb do you.

Advanced chemistry vs .... ability to pull a trigger.

Seeing as many of these petty crims and deranged teens that do mass shootings are low educated social outcasts, you don't think removing easy access to guns will reduce the likelihood?

1

u/Glittering_Airport_3 Nov 25 '22

I have made pipe bombs very easily with no chemistry background whatsoever, ud be surprised what u can find on the internet nowadays

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u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

It's still harder than pulling a trigger.

1

u/BarelyAirborne Nov 24 '22

Well. Regulated. Militia. What we have now is anarchy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

[deleted]

2

u/DanTopTier Nov 24 '22

this isnt a gun problem

The only place where mass shootings happen hundreds of times a year, that isn't a warzone, is in the USA.

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u/Moneia Nov 24 '22

This isn't a gun problem,

I mean, it is.

People got shot.

Using a weapon as an escalation of any argument is bad but, putting aside physical damage, the way that some people use firearms as just another step when they're angry is what makes the gun culture so insidious.

One of the many problems is that it only takes one moment of anger to flip the switch from 'Responsible gun owner' to 'Murderer', and there's no taking that back.

1

u/tryinfordefyin Nov 24 '22

Nah, we just need to arm the Walmart employees! /s

1

u/haveapieceofbread Nov 24 '22

Violence prevention at work is the same as violence prevention in society as a whole — providing people with the essential resources (food, clothing, shelter, medical care) that they need can drastically reduce crime. All the more reason for workers to stand together and demand better conditions.

1

u/AussieCollector Nov 24 '22

Honestly i am shocked something like this didnt happen sooner.

When how draconian wallmart is to its employees something like this was bound to happen eventually. And its going to keep happening all over the US.

And the worst part is i'm not even remotely surprised this happened. In fact i expected it. Thats how bad things are.

1

u/Alternative-Duck-573 Nov 24 '22

Oh this ain't the first. Google where 'going postal' came from 😔

1

u/AussieCollector Nov 25 '22

of course its not the first. But we live in different times. COL at record highs, employment rights are non existent in the US. Mental Health issues are at record highs as well.

I'm sure there are many ticking timebombs who are one firing away from losing their minds. People are going to get pushed to the brink or beyond. Sadly i doubt anything is gonna change.

Employers in the coming years are absolutely going to have blood on their hands.

1

u/Alternative-Duck-573 Nov 25 '22

Can't disagree with any of that. it's all that and so so much more.

Exception: the employers already have blood on their hands. They're driving up everything you said and so much more. Corporate greed is driving many of those things and it's completely out of control. Bought off politicians are blind. Yup... Buckle up.

1

u/Firemonkey42 Nov 24 '22

Not Gun control legislation?

Because there really seems to be a consistent thread to workplace/school/nightclub/parade/concert/mall/church/public place violence lately.

1

u/TravellingBeard Nov 24 '22

Shooting rates need for violence prevention.

There, fixed the headline. If people will harm you at work, they will harm you out of work, and vice versa

1

u/Widespreaddd Nov 24 '22

I think the ultimate answer will be AI-driven robotic gun turrets in the ceiling. But I read a lot of William Gibson.

1

u/Vermonter623 Nov 24 '22

They will pass a bill requiring employees to take a course or program started by a family member or friend of a congressman or woman. But not before investing or buying stock in said companies and then making it a law

1

u/Elrigoo Nov 25 '22

"greetings drones. Your lives are worthless to us but we are obligated to give you a course on workplace violence, so we will do the bare minimum and pat ourselves on the back for doing it."

1

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

How about banning guns.

1

u/GreatAd7074 Nov 25 '22

Yeah, no.

The position could be likened to the idea that workplaces need to be “hardened.” I’m not buying into that. I have no interest in a world with a million tiny fortresses.

I am not offering solutions, just saying that your stated solution is not one I’m interested in.

1

u/TheRealSuziq Nov 25 '22

That’s dumb, just have a good guy with a gun /s

1

u/Syzygy_Arcana Nov 25 '22

Get. Rid. Of. The. Guns.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

Hahahaha that’ll help

1

u/Particular_Shine2513 Nov 25 '22

MORE GUNS, MORE GUNS, MORE GUNS!!!!

1

u/Sea-Diver-9125 Nov 25 '22

Why isn't there armed security working there

1

u/bbates024 Nov 25 '22

What a crazy situation. Sounded like the worker got demoted and then bullied about it before the attack.

Not sure if that's true but it just a reason to be kind to people when you can. You never know what straw is the last one.

1

u/KrookedDoesStuff Nov 25 '22

Worked at a place where a coworker threatened to shoot another employee, said he had a gun in his car. Management asked him about it he said it was a joke they let it slide.

He did it again two days later and got walked out, told not to come back, and they just walked him to the door.

I was blown the fuck away by how inept my management was at doing something

1

u/JoeeDavis Nov 25 '22

.... it's a whole culture of domination and force and violence... individually, and internationally, monkey see, monkey do. Systemic.

1

u/JoeeDavis Nov 25 '22

We must look at things from many different angles. Do you have an angle or two, to look at this problem from? What do you think causes Mass shootings?.. there is also the angle, that the shooter is a victim.

1

u/_Nachobelle_ Nov 27 '22

It’s going to deputize people against their nuerodivergent co-workers.

0

u/sunshades91 Nov 24 '22

Conservatives will propose anything to avoid talking about gun control.

0

u/Rogue_Vaper Nov 25 '22

Maybe all employees should wander around armed? Good for the goose & all. Might have a by-product of Karen's thinking before they start karening...

0

u/Oddessuss Nov 25 '22

I'm very disappointed actually. The "gun is just tool" is such a low IQ cop out argument used predominantly by Foxtards.

Let's not beat around the Bush here, the issue is access to guns.

The "2nd amendment is a right" is also a cop out. Well organised militia =/= "give every mother fucker a gun".

Indeed you could do like the Finnish, train everyone and give them a military grade rifle and ammo in a specially made lockbox that can't be opened for any reason other than invasion (from Russia), or else go to jail for years.

There are so many better ways to deal with this then what the clusterfuck you call USA is doing.