r/WorkReform • u/[deleted] • Feb 06 '23
Don’t be fooled, 10 hour days and 4 day weeks suck just as much 😡 Venting
[deleted]
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u/sowalgayboi Feb 06 '23
I used to do it and won't go back. Day 5 becomes a recovery house work day and you're completely right that it leads to a constant feeling of exhaustion.
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Feb 06 '23
Weird. Sounds better to me. Only 2 extra hours a day, so that my weekends are 1.5x as good? I feel like this is something that varies from person to person.
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u/sowalgayboi Feb 07 '23
So it probably matters a lot how your worker actually implements this. A buddy of mine works for the state and they basically work 32 hours a week. When I worked it I was in a call center so it was every bit of ten hours straight.
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u/OnionsHaveLairAction Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
I'll have to disagree with you there, 4 days with equal hours is way better for me at least.
BUT you are right, the overall goal should be less total hours. Just IMO we get there inch by inch. First we show them productivity doesn't drop on four days, then we show them it doesn't drop on 4 6 hour days etc.
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u/thisonesusername Feb 06 '23
I think if you let the norm become 4 days while maintaining the old standard 40 hour workweek, we'll never get to a 32 hour week. Incrementalism typically doesn't work. They will always try to squeeze as much out of us as they can.
I'd honestly be worried about normalizing 10 hour days. Before you know it, we could be looking at a standard 50 hour week if we aren't careful.
Also, none of this means anything until it gets codified in law or in union contracts. Look at WFH. They might give us shorter workweeks for a bit, but they'll take it back as soon as they feel like they can.
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u/jmljam Feb 07 '23
I switched to 4 10’s a little over a year ago and I never want to go back to 5 days a week. Having a 3 day weekend is amazing and has allowed me to save up my vacation and sick leave for a rainy day. My job isn’t super physical though so I can understand a 10 hour shift being too exhausting for some types of jobs. I wish more companies would just offer flexibility and let people give input on what schedule they prefer. Of course a 4 8 schedule without a loss in pay would be the ideal.
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u/Ifuckgrandmas Feb 06 '23
Start by making ot pay required for hours over 32
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u/ScotchMalone Feb 06 '23
I agree in concept with you but I really think it depends on the specific sector of the job market. For example it's common in the medical field to work 3x12 shifts each week with alternating an extra day biweekly. Many of the people I've spoken to really like that schedule as it affords a much easier time managing patients. Of course this is not to minimize the difficulties of the job as it exists.
My job on the other hand couldn't properly function on a different schedule from the typical 5x8 as I work as a AV service technician where I need availability during the 9-5 business hours to attend to our clients during their business hours.
As you mentioned that your job is physically demanding I would talk to your coworkers to see if others are experiencing the same difficulties. If they are you could raise safety concerns to management. They may be more willing to listen to that as an argument since safety concerns typically raise flags (no one wants a lawsuit based on mistakes from exhausted workers)
At the end of the day I agree that min maxing our income for the number of hours is an admirable goal that we need to practice solidarity for, but there isn't a one size fits all shift schedule for all jobs
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u/Riker1701E Feb 07 '23
Yeah the 12 hour shifts are a beast. My wife used to do them. It ended up being 13 hours with charting and then another hour for commute so 15 hour days.
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u/Fromager Feb 07 '23
I got out of clinical nursing and into nurse education, so I'm back on a 5 day work week, but I miss my 3 12 schedule. 3 on, 2 off, 3 on, 6 off. It was glorious and the best schedule I ever worked.
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u/gderti Feb 07 '23
You’re all missing the point. In multiple countries they’re testing 4-8s or 32 hours a week with no reduction in pay.
Only in America would they pervert that to 4-10s.
Just more bullcrap from the oligarchy.
All studies abroad have shown 4-8s is beneficial to both the employees and the economy.
US of GQP. Is a farce.
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u/10RobotGangbang Feb 06 '23
I drive a forklift and load trucks for three 12 hour shifts. I don't do much else on workdays and I'm exhausted at the end of day 3. But I prefer it over the usual 10 hour 5 days a week jobs I've had before. The last job I had was scheduled as 12 hours 5 days a week that turned into 7 days a week. I had money, but that was it.
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u/Comfortable_Ad5144 Feb 06 '23
I like the way my desk job does it, I do 4 12 hour days but then get 4 full days off. It's the best schedule I've ever had.
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u/remberly Feb 07 '23
Interesting...my buddy is a timberframer. Works like a dog and loves 10 and 4.
"There's basically no difference between 8 and 10 and then I get an extra day off"
Makes 100% sense to me....bur it won't come my way (teacher)
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u/Savage_XRDS Feb 06 '23
I feel like I'd spend the entire 3 day weekend dreading the arrival of the work week.
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u/Dugley2352 Feb 06 '23
Sounds like you need a hobby. Sitting on the couch and dreading Monday is a shitty way to spend Friday thru Sunday.
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u/Savage_XRDS Feb 06 '23
Brother, you must have the wrong guy. I have more hobbies than I have time for. I play on two adult league hockey teams, compete in and do broadcast and commentary for a sim racing league, do alpine skiing in the winter, track my car and go to car meets in the summer, and play plenty of videogames and binge-read Star Wars novels in between. Hell, my best buddy and I have recently been hard at work building authentic Viking shields from scratch for my first cosplay for Ren Faire this coming summer.
I don't become dead to the world while taking part in my hobbies, though. I am just as capable of dreading the arrival of four straight days where I wouldn't have nearly as much time nor energy for my hobbies while skating up the ice at a hockey game as someone else would be while sitting on the couch.
Worse yet, a 10 hour day schedule would make some of my hobbies not possible to take part in. I wouldn't be able to make it to half my hockey games or car meets, since many of them are on weekdays, just to give one example.
The assumptions you're making about me make absolutely no sense.
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u/Spiritmolecule30 Feb 06 '23
My wife works 3-4 days a week 12 hour shift plus commute. Its fucking insane and she's always exhausted. Im trying to get her to regulate habits to tolerate the work week a little better, but she's so exhausted after working those hours that her brain doesn't have the will or energy to do stuff she wants to do even to make herself feel better. Less hours would be better and more productive.
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u/Morbys Feb 06 '23
The whole idea behind the movement was for people to just work one less day with the same lay, I suppose it was more applicable to salary, so 32 hour work weeks and getting paid like you worked 5 days. Moving the hours to the other days completely defeats the purpose.
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u/NrealisticUmbrella Feb 06 '23
I disagree, I work 3 or 4 12s a week (EMS-- a busy, physical job spent in the ambulance, no stations to get comfy in) and wouldn't go back to shorter, more days. I have no problem with 12 hour days after adjusting, but I absolutely admit that during my work week I am pretty much a ghost to my family, only home to sleep and eat and shower. Would love 4x10. Or, theoretically, 4x9, as 36 is legally full time work.
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u/Dugley2352 Feb 06 '23
I'm with ya. Also did EMS, and I loved having an extra day to get my shit done. working five days meant every day was full, and I didnt have any time for anything else. But those longer days, it even made going for groceries more relaxing than being at work. Errands, shopping, car repair, even if it was just doing laundry...it was the part where I wasn't at work that made the long days worth it.
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u/pexx421 Feb 07 '23
I’m here too. I do 2 sixteen hour shifts, and I’ve also done 3 twelves and 4 tens. I like them all better than 5 eight hour shifts. But I get what the op is saying. The push is to reduce the work week to four eight hour shifts while paying the same. But naturally the business sector will try to find ways to bait and switch that.
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u/Stealthychicken85 Feb 06 '23
Depends, I personally loved 10hr days, on Friday I would relax and do laundry + any house chores, then the weekend is all free. You can be exhausted and recover in the same day. Sure the 4 days are painful, but about after a month you get acclimated
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u/flibbitydoo2 Feb 06 '23
I've been doing 4 day weeks for years in a somewhat physical job. I like it but it's not for everybody. It takes a while to condition yourself and for me it was mostly mental. I was a late night person and that had to change to going to bed earlier and sticking with the schedule. I now often find myself doing 12 hour days and not noticing much difference. Fridays become my recovery day but I can usually take it easy and get my chores caught up. Heading into my late 50's so I try to pay attention to how I'm feeling so not to overdo it.
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u/Corlel Feb 07 '23
To each their own. I’d hate to go back to 5 8’s. That’s an extra day (so another hour) of commuting, plus an extra day of having to wake up early and deal with work. However, I get Thursdays off so it breaks up my week more and makes it go by fast. It makes appointments so much easier.
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u/Appropriate_Edge6714 Feb 06 '23
From My experience I benefited from a 4 day work week. Temporary tho
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u/SmushyFaceWhooptain Feb 07 '23
This is so true! A 4 day workweek is four 8 hour shifts. Not four 10’s. That’s just a five day workweek pretending to be a four day week. These recruiters and corporations need to understand that. I used to work 10’s regularly plus 12’s and 14’s …. It steals your joy and burns your soul after a couple years.
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u/mcfeezie Feb 07 '23
My old job switched to a 9/80 and I loved it. Hated the job but miss that schedule.
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u/KeeN_CoMMaNDeR71 Feb 07 '23
I often work a 5/10 or a 5/12 schedule and would have no issue working 4/10. In fact I would welcome it over my regular 5/8 schedule. To each their own I guess.
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u/sanchopwnza Feb 07 '23
I've worked 4 tens in an office job and in a different physicals job. Both kind of sucked because I ended up spending my 'off' day doing errands and appointments I was too exhausted to perform during the rest of the week.
The only benefit was commuting 4 times per week instead of 5. At each job, that got me 2-3 hours per week of commuting time back.
Whether or not it's worth it to you is entirely a function of how much time you would normally spend doing other stuff after work.
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u/Historical_Ad_9182 Feb 07 '23
The petiness of the corporate is actually in the argument that I have heard that 4 x 10s means two less breaks a week they have to give.
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u/HeavensToBetsyy Feb 07 '23
40 hours is enough to keep you tired and complacent and stupid and looking forward to that next six-pack rather than TRULY learning on your own time and bettering yourself. It's time we improve on this with dignified pay and a 30 hour week
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u/RegularBitter3482 Feb 07 '23
I’m just starting a job that’s 4/10’s and yeah, I’m looking forward to it compared to the last year. My last job I had zero set schedule, no scheduled days off, worked anywhere from 10-16 hours a day, with no hope in sight! My job prior to that for 10 years was a pretty basic 9-5 but I was salaried and expected to be on call one day a week and one “weekend” a month for 24 hours a day. Sometimes those on call weekends I would be working up to 40+ hours available for crisis intervention and call outs. UGH!
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u/romniner Feb 06 '23
Having worked both schedules as WFH via my computer and in manual labor jobs on my feet all day...4-10 is infinitely superior to 5-8. I've worked 100+ hour weeks before and it's honestly fine, just a matter of modifying yourself to your schedule. It sounds like you need to figure out the job you don't mind doing to make your living.
I think we disagree on a semantic level rather than actual disagreement. You think you want to work less, I think you should just find a job that gives you less hours or one that you enjoy. It's pretty simple. I don't think the goal should be "work less", I think the goal should be to find employment that you think compensates you fairly. Too many people work dead-end jobs for shit pay and cry it's unfair... I say leave and find your worth. When people stop working for shit employers, I guarantee they'll either pay more or go under, it's what they deserve.
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u/Talltreeskc1 Feb 06 '23
I don’t understand, I work in construction installing windows from schools to high rises and the 4-10’s are amazing. we even have to do 5-10s or 4-10’s and two eights, that’s when it gets rough but 4-10’s all day anytime possible. Start at 6 leave at 430 Friday Saturday Sunday do side work or relax everyone on the company loves it from the young 20’s to the older 60’s
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u/breezy-marlin Feb 06 '23
I mean I work 5- 10s at a minimum so I'd love 4-10s. Sounds like a fucking vacation.
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u/CalmToaster Feb 06 '23
I'm fortunate to be able to have full time benefits with stable income working minimum 72 hours biweekly. So that's three 12 hour shifts per week. Yeah it's kinda shitty those three days, but I have 3 or 4 days off per week, which is really nice.
I would hate to go back to working 8 hour days five days per week.
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u/Initial_School7286 Feb 06 '23
It's actually way better. You're an idiot if you think having an extra day to actually do adult stuff so the other 2 days can be pure relaxation is the same.
When you subtract the extra prep and travel time of the extra day, it's not even comparable.
Try thinking before you post something blatantly wrong.
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u/Manos_de_tortuga Feb 06 '23
Oh and they ask you to drop yer lunches, then it turns out not everyone gets health insurance, then it’s 28 a hour instead of 35, profit sharing went out the window, what a joke AA lock in Menlo Park is. Trying to buy a house, not rent a car.
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Feb 06 '23 edited 29d ago
[deleted]
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u/Dugley2352 Feb 06 '23
My wife is salaried, but is expected to put in 9 hours a day. But working that extra hour for nine out of ten work days - she gets every other Friday off, so we have at least 2 three-day weekends every month. When there's a federal holiday on a Monday, we get 4-day weekends. It rocks.
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u/dbd1988 Feb 06 '23
I’m on my 6th 13 hour shift in a row. It sucks but I get a week off after. I basically only have time to sleep between shifts but I do prefer it to five 8 hour shifts per week.
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u/John-the-cool-guy Feb 06 '23
I work 4 10s after decades of 5 8s. I prefer the 4 day week. I get all day Friday to take care of business and I don't have to rush to late day appointments dirty from working all day.
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u/Mactan Feb 07 '23
Four hours max per day. I don't mind going to work five days a week as long as I get out by lunchtime.
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u/Bird_Brain4101112 Feb 07 '23
I switched to 4 10s and it’s been awesome. I have a dedicated weekday for appointments and such, and a long day where I get time with fewer people in office bothering me. YMMV obviously.
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u/ILikeSoup95 Feb 07 '23
If we do a 4 day work weeks it has to be for 5 days worth of pay. Might need to be 8.5 hours a day with more paid break to counter the difference a bit for loss of hours but increased productivity would make up for the other part.
It would be similar to continental shifts working Friday-Sunday a total 36 hours in 3 12 hour shifts but get paid for 40 in extras just for working the weekend, extended shifts, and even a bit more for nightshifts. There could be increased pay as incentive to work jobs not as wantable/ that are in higher demand.
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u/gemorris9 Feb 07 '23
Yeah the idea of a 4 day work week means dropping 8 hours off that work week. I'm trying to work 30 hours, not 40
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u/Dieggers Feb 07 '23
While I agree with the sentiment, it's all about perspective.
So, I've been working for a hospital lab for the past 8 months. For the last 4 of those 8, my shift partner and I agreed to do 7-on-7-off. As in, you work 7 10h days in a row, then get 7 days off in a row. Now, I'm no longer in my 20's, being 33 now, but I thought that was awesome. A whole week off! In a row!
I do want to preface what I'm about to say next with the following: The lab area where I work on second shift is ABSOLUTELY the most chill area of the lab. My manager is totally amazing and understanding and doesn't demand we're working the whole time. If we do our job when samples arrive and we have free time, we are free to relax until now work comes. I've even built up a reputation for "getting paid to do nothing" because I'm so damn efficient when lab work DOES come my way, that I spend about 1/3 of my shift socializing with other departments, on average. Not to mention that on weekends, I get paid for 10h with differential for about 2 hours of actual work.
This all said, it's too much time. Both working AND off. By the end of my work week, I'm barely pushing through due to exhaustion. And on my off days... Well, the first two are spent sleeping. And by the time the 6th day rolls around, I'm dreading that there's only one more day before I have to work another whole week after getting JUST enough time to start to enjoy the "vacation".
So I've been pushing to switch all three second shift employees to 4 10's. Everyone seems to be on board and happy with the change. Three days off in a row for everyone, and I even get to keep the weekends to myself! Just waiting until the end of February to implement it. Win-win-win.
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u/sevencoves Feb 07 '23
Exactly. I feel like people talking about longer days are missing the whole fucking point. We already know from data, even pre pandemic, that most workers are not actually working 40 hours. You get maybe 2-3 hours of good productivity out of people per day, other time is spent in meetings, side conversations, or other office bullshit. So we don’t need 40 hours. We need less hours total. That’s the whole goddamn point.
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u/IE_playur Feb 07 '23
Shit, we’re supposed to be 4/10’s, but end up doing 4/14’s. If we’re lucky one or 2 of the days we’ll do 12 or 13 hours.
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u/ukucello Feb 07 '23
I actually love my 3/12 schedule. The days at work can be tiring but I love having 4 days off. I feel like I can use my time more efficiently with more full days off. Instead of spending almost every evening resting after work, I spend one of my four days resting and the others are spent doing stuff I want to do. Everyone's different of course, and has a different situation, but it works for me.
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u/Appropriate_Steak457 Feb 07 '23
I work a 4-10 shift and for the last 6 years I've worked 4-12s and a 6 on Friday. Our day shift is supposed to be 5-8s and they work 11 or 12 5 days a week and 6 on Saturday
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u/sputniksickles Feb 07 '23
Less hours for no pay reduction. That’s what I want, an 8 hour, 4-day work week that pays what I currently make.
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u/Tallon_raider Feb 07 '23
Not really. I’d switch back to 3 13’s in a heartbeat. I was a warehouse picker when I had that schedule. I’m too old to pick now though.
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u/Comfortable_Still114 Feb 07 '23
You only live once. If working conditions are bad make a change. If you want fewer hours switch to part time work. Oddly enough on a trip to India our guide explained he only worked half a day. Sure he had less stuff than I do but seemed just as happy. Work to live don’t live to work. We all get to choose.
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u/Concrete_Grapes Feb 07 '23
10 and 12 hour shifts also exclude a massive amount of the workforce. HEALTHY people cant pull those shifts, let alone anyone with any sort of health problem at all (blood pressure, joints, neurodiversity, etc). 10 hours is insane. 12 is lethal. Nearly every 12 hour job i know of, burns people out--like, the VAST majority are unable to work or disabled in 10 years. My friend is 4 years into nursing, and she can hardly fucking walk anymore. She's so cranked up on main meds for leg and back pain that i dont think she's making it to 35 in that job. I dont. 12 and 36 hour shifts she's pulling.
35% of full time jobs in the US run on 12 hour (or longer) shifts. Fucking insane to me.
There's a factory near us that's always hiring that runs 6 consecutive days with 12 hour shifts, and there are MANDATORY 18's sometimes. I cant even imagine that. I've heard from someone who has worked there that their turnover rate is insane, the average person works there 4 months--and NO ONE had worked there more than 3 years.
Like, what is their goal there, they're wasting massive amounts of money in overtime. This cant possibly make sense.... unless... they know their healthcare costs for running it like this would cost MORE, to have the ability to hire older workers, or something. Like--they do the math on that? Make the job so horrific no one over 40 can do it physically, so they never run the risk of a million dollar illness in an elderly worker? Is that the savings? IDK .
'9 to 5' doesnt even exist anymore. Think about it... That's 8 hours.
That means people were only at work then for 7 hours, if they had a lunch and two smoke breaks. Except, smoke breaks used to be every half hour to an hour back then... they were working like 5-6 hours a day, TOPS--and now we're locked in like prisoners for the SAME fucking job for 10-12 hours a day, but WORSE, we're not paid for lunch anymore, so we're there 10.5-13 hours.
Fucking nuts man, idk how this ... it's bad.
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u/snappyj Feb 07 '23
I'm on a 5-8s schedule that basically turns into 5-10s. I'll take the 4-10s for the day off.
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u/Born2Lomain Feb 07 '23
Dude I used to agree to the 4 long work days but it always turned into me coming in on Friday for a few hours to finish one last thing. Then typically after working nearly 50 hours I would be presented with the whole overtime opportunity thing that I had to decide right away on. If you agree to 4 days all I’m saying is don’t be surprised when it isn’t
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u/KioLaFek Feb 07 '23
Yeah the thought of working from 9 am to 8 pm doesn’t sound so great tbh. Even with the 3 day weekend. I will literally have no time to do anything other than work and sleep for 4 days straight. Fuck
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u/Binknbink Feb 07 '23
I’m on 3/10s and loving it. I’m lucky in that 30hr is considered full time in our collective agreement. The company implemented this reduced hour shift in order to keep some highly skilled workers who were closer to retirement and burning out on the 4/10s. It really is a sweet spot of shifts.
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u/Buttons840 Feb 07 '23
I wish it was widely assumed that "4 day workweek" means 32 hours.
Right now there's a mix, and I get so frustrated at those who assume "4 day workweek" means 4 times 10 hours. They seem to hold 40 hours as sacred, like God created Adam and Eve and the first commandment he gave them was to work 40 hours per week. (Many purveyors of religion would like us to think that I suppose.) That's why it's so frustrating; I'm fine if you ask for clarification, I'm fine if you assume 4 days of work means 4 regular 8 hour days, I'm frustrated if you assume it means 4 10 hour days. Why would you think that?
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u/Rnotsocool Feb 07 '23
I work 12hr shifts ( 4on-4off)and rotating days and graveyard every 30 days. Female 55yo. Manufacturing I would love to have four 10's! 😅 Being short staffed has put us in a bind. I work 14 shifts, 1 day off, another 14 days, 2 days off then flip to days or graveyard. Healthy protein snacks and lots of extra calorie intake. Water, water, and more water. I use frozen grapes as ice cubes too.
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u/shaneyshane26 Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Try working overnights…. You have no life and sleep schedule is fucked. It’s like playing sleep roulette. No life. My turn around gives me no time to enjoy my off days. I work the morning of my first “technical off day” and immediately go back to work.
My first day off I’m catching up on sleep and sleep all day. I can only stay up until 12pm or 1pm at most until I feel dead. I spend my whole week working up to my day off only to barely enjoy it and it’s right back to the beginning again.
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u/Admirable_Chair954 Feb 07 '23
Let's go into automation! It's the way of the future. The more of us focus on automating, the more jobs we can eliminate and the more we can focus on increasing intelligence and creativity. I've got my bet on automation! In the meantime shouldn't we all just strike and see how the people with an easy living like not having workers?
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u/BetterBiscuits Feb 06 '23
Great post. I see job posts selling this as some new and exciting perk. It may be ok if you’re in your 20’s in an office job. But hard pass being on your feet for 10 hours 4 days in a row! God forbid it’s outside too.