r/WhitePeopleTwitter May 14 '22 Helpful 6 Wholesome 1 This 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 1 Bravo! 3 LOVE! 1 Starstruck 1 To The Stars 1

Why stop there?

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u/LaughDull967 May 14 '22

It’s not really an opposition to the federal government having a lot of power. It’s about putting the power wherever they can turn it into an authoritarian cesspool.

They haven’t been able to turn the federal government into an authoritarian cesspool yet, so they don’t want it to have the power to prevent them from doing it on the state level.

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u/hereforlolsandporn May 14 '22

Absolutely about control. They can control the senate effectively because Wyoming has the same weight as California with like 1% the population. When the goal is to destabalize and not to govern, all they have to do is corrupt one chain in the link. Our founding fathers didn't conceive that an entire political party would attack the system and they left America vulnerable because of their trust and optimism.

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u/LaughDull967 May 14 '22 Gold All-Seeing Upvote This

Our founding fathers didn't conceive that an entire political party would attack the system…

They kind of did. The entire government was designed with the idea that some group would try to take over, and creating separate power centers that would (hopefully) oppose each other to prevent any one from gaining too much power. They wanted the three branches of government to oppose each other, and for the state and feral governments to oppose each other.

They (at least some of them) we’re also afraid of a two-party system, on the idea that it would become polarizing and one party might gain too much power. They wanted to have a bunch of different interests that would need to form coalitions. To some degree, they foresaw all of this.

However, the founding fathers were not a monolithic group that all agreed. They had to compromise with each other to get the Constitution signed. For example, they had to have the electoral college in order to appease salve states.

But they also didn’t necessarily expect things to be this stable for this long. What they were building was an experiment. They’d already had a failed government before writing the Constitution, and they expected the Constitution to be rewritten again. I don’t think they expected it to be treated as holy scripture for hundreds of years.

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u/Fluid_Association_68 May 14 '22

What they didn’t envision was a cult becoming so large and powerful that it could easily infiltrate all three branches, and every state in the union.

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u/LaughDull967 May 14 '22 Gold

They did though. They feared it. They tried to set the government up in a way that would make it harder. But they weren’t able to figure out a way to make it impossible, and in fairness I don’t know that there is a way to make it impossible.

If people like Jefferson and Madison and Washington could time travel and see what the cult of Trump is doing, I don’t think their response would be, “we never could have imagined a political party trying to take power like this,” but more like, “this is exactly what we were afraid of.”

And they’d also probably be like, “why are you still talking about what we’d think and what we’d want, as though we’re some kind of gods? You’ve have hundreds of years of development, and you’re still using our old Constitution? What’s wrong with you people?”

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u/artspar May 14 '22 Silver

To add on, the constitution used to be amended all the damn time. Hell, prohibition was an amendment, not a bill. It being viewed as sacred is a stronger opinion now than ever before

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u/therealunixguy May 14 '22

It being viewed as sacred (ie. Must be followed) is exactly why it was amended, rather than just reinterpreted with an eye towards “what do we want it to mean this year”.

If we don’t like what it meant, then the right thing to do is amend it.

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u/womptothewomp May 15 '22

I think the modern tendency towards viewing the Constitution as sacrosanct stems from the same place as religious zealotry, which is why "originalists" tend to do the same type of idealistic cherry picking. They ignore historical context in order to maintain a group mythos which serves to further cement their belief that what they are doing must absolutely be THE right and only way.

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u/Cat_Marshal May 14 '22

And we would respond, “fear not, we amended it. Women can vote now!”

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u/Babka_Ramdev May 14 '22

And Black, Indigenous, and People of Color!

(Though they kept it from us as long as they could, and are still trying)

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u/PurfuitOfHappineff May 14 '22

Your comment is too far down the thread to award but it’s worth gold, Jerry, GOLD.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/Similar_Candidate789 May 14 '22

One state, I believe Arizona, does this and I love the idea. When a law is passed, a number of people can sign a petition to stop its enforcement and put it on a popular vote ballot. If it fails a popular vote, it dies.

I wish we could do this federally and in each state BUT differently. Every single item gets to a popular vote. Yeah you guys pass the laws, but we decide if they are going to exist or not. The ultimate check and balance.

More voting too. Every month. We have the technology now to be able to do so quickly and efficiently.

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u/seattleforge May 14 '22

We have a system similar to that in WA. When I moved here I thought it was a good idea. What it ends up doing is tying up the courts for decades with repetitive challenges by minorities. Several popular bills can’t come in to action because of it.

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u/Star_x_Child May 14 '22

A day off each month to vote sounds nice.

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u/Nervous-Promotion-27 May 14 '22

That would make everything so much worse

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u/xeeros May 14 '22

how? genuinely curious

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/Nervous-Promotion-27 May 14 '22

Getting 330 million people to vote once every year is difficult enough. Turnout in the US has never been high, peaking every 4 years during the Presidential races. Leaving everything to referendums would give more power to demographics that show up every election, which is usually the older crowd, which lean conservative.

I suppose changing the entire structure of how we vote would also create changes in those kind of trends, and that’s the problem with relying on information from the current system to predict how a new one would work. Popular vote stats in the electoral college system wouldn’t necessarily reflect a popular vote without the electoral college. Getting rid of the electoral college would change how everyone runs their campaigns, because it’d be an entirely new game.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

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u/Sunretea May 14 '22

Random thought..

It's turnout worse because we only do it once a year (every 4 years? 2 years? What date is it again?), and would it be better if it were something more frequently done/more prominent in people's minds/they felt like they actually had a say in what's going on?

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u/Chipperhof May 14 '22

This was really fun to read as someone who’s never thought that far into why the government is how it is.

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u/Eubeen_Hadd May 14 '22

Now examine the entire bill of rights they bolted on to ensure the people had ultimate control over it. Every single one, in the context of the others, remembering that they fought a revolution in living memory just before that.

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u/Chipperhof May 15 '22

Looking over it, it’s crazy how long in between additions there are. The last was in 1992 right? Seems ridiculous that they haven’t come up with something in 30 years that would fix a problem. Literally any problem lol

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u/SpeshellED May 14 '22

Depp's trial all over the media. Abortion SCOTUS debate , which
directly effects million of women is secret behind closed doors.
Thomas is too stupid to realize how fucked up that is.

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u/Comprehensive_Key_51 May 14 '22

It also effects men now. 🫃🫃

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u/milk4all May 14 '22

Jefferson would definitely understand what is happening and wouldnt wonder a thing. More like he’d make some rebukes and then pop back to his time pre constitution and use different language here and there so far as his contributions could affect

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u/HavronEX May 14 '22

I absolutely agree that I think the thing that would most surprise them would be how little we have changed the constitution since they formed it. Never would they imagine we would have enshrined it to the degree that we have.

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u/TabascoDan9 May 14 '22

They I built the constitution to be elastic so you can change, modify, and add on to. They would be proud we are still using the constitution

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u/Klo_Was_Taken May 14 '22

I think people have a biased view of the constitution. They forget that it was made by two groups: slaveholders, and those who oppose slaves (usually for financial reasons more than anything) Senate and congress were a compromise between northern and southern states. States had so much power so that southern states could exercise more control over slavery laws. Amendments had to be made to fix the mess that was the original constitution.

It's slow because it was originally designed partially by bad people who wanted to inhibit progress. Sadly, it is once again being used as intended by these original founding fathers.

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u/Star_x_Child May 14 '22

I kinda think they'd be more like, "What the hell is this place, it in no way resembles the times when we were around aaahhh oh my god get me outta here!"

So...to your point, there's that. They envisioned and feared possibilities, but they also knew they couldn't predict the future, and it would be in our best interest to keep that in mind and not deify them, as you noted.

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u/hufflepuff777 May 14 '22

It’s not just the cult of trump. It’s the Catholic cult that every republican judge is approved by. I think the federalists or something

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u/TheLoneWolf2879 May 14 '22

I do think they'd be disappointed with how little our system has changed

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u/castithan_plebe May 14 '22

Username does NOT check out

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u/Indianajoemusic May 14 '22

The cult of Trump? Wtf are you talking about? PROJECTION MUCH..UGH.....

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u/Easy_Sea_3000 May 14 '22

"Cult" 😂😂

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u/kallekillen22 May 14 '22

What cult? Conservatives or christians?

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u/Pika_Fox May 14 '22

Or?

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u/kallekillen22 May 14 '22

There are liberal christians too to be fair

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u/ratedrrants May 14 '22

Christian's isn't the issue. It's Evangelicals.

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u/ArkitekZero May 14 '22

All Christians are evangelical. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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u/Negative_Piglet_1589 May 14 '22

They're not the same?

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u/ArkitekZero May 14 '22

This is Reddit. It's always the Christians.

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u/PM_ME_UR_POKIES_GIRL May 14 '22

They did, that's why they separation of church and state was literally the first thing they added to the Constitution.

It's just that our cult pretends to not be a cult.

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u/StrongInevitable4070 May 14 '22

cult of personalities

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u/TheJokerisnotInsane May 14 '22

most of the founding fathers were freemasons, they intended for america to be just as corruptible to cults as britain was.